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 M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"

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qnt3n
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:09 pm

When I checked last night they had 1 domination contract

But I hope they do get back into MAG and hopefully join another PMC
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:27 pm

Dark flock is actually still together, but they lost Mud, Raptor and Grimace. Dotsilver and alpha blondie are still there though, but its not the same DF that I knew before the 3C vs DF occurred. My friend is actually in DF now, as they have drastically lowered their requirments. No longer need more grims than hours played, and no longer need over 2.0 KD. All you need, is a mic, medkit, and a 1.75 KD ratio as of now. When I ran in raven for a month or two, I actually tried out and got a temporary spot so an officer could review me, but I got 70 and vetted the hell oout of there. Nothin' against the Flock, but I just like SVER more cause we're terrorists, and we're "SVER Winners Shadow War 2010-30000000"

Slaughter
Valor
Eliminate
Raven.

That is all
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qnt3n
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Static, we should group up sometime
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:27 pm

we should. Only thing is I've been freezing lately every couple of games, so I might drop out unexpectedly.
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qnt3n
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:04 pm

yeah that happens to me sometimes, especially in domo. I'll send you a FR when I get on
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:27 pm

kk sounds good
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:44 pm

Transport vehicles are some of the most durable things in this game. I literally shot 5 rockets into one that hadn't been damaged, before black smoke started coming out. Weird how SVER vehicles are so fragile, but Raven and Valor just stand there saying "I'M THE JUGGERNAUT BIATCH"
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qnt3n
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:12 pm

I know.. I'm trying to go after the "Precious Cargo" trophy, but it's such a pain in the ass to try and destroy one of those things! I have to camp in the back and wait for someone to open the port, kill him, and destroy it before bluedots swarm it. And that's only if a red dot even sneaks through
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Vrals597
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:36 pm

I never really bothered to go after the escort vehicles, never really play aqui anymore really, not after they got rid of its 50% exp bonus and gave dom a 256% bonus
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:54 pm

Aqui for the win. You don't get bullshit strikes from all positions on your spawn point all the time. Plus, I love defending Elk Bay. Everyone says its too easy to attack, yet SVER wins it ALL THE TIME defending. Again, SVER is not OP anymore, we just have better guys, also, getting B slot for Raven and C slot for Valor. C will be gone as soon as I get lvl 60, and I use B to play with Ggamdori and get into awesome games with him Very Happy= :D
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Vrals597
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:59 pm

OMG that is the ONE thing that I HATE about dom, more times than not the attackers start to spawn camp the defenders with EVERYTHING, particularly the strikes, can't think of ONE game that I have not felt the controller vibrate for 30 secs every 10 secs, constant strikes
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Endlo-
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:54 am

I'm not sure how you'd go about spawn-camping defenders in Domination. Do you mean it the other way around, with attackers calling in early strikes, and then pushing to the redline? It's pretty standard, and should be expected, at this point in the game.

After the initial OIC fight for the first Jam, it's not that uncommon for an early set of strikes to soften the first wave of attackers, to set up that early push back to the redline. Bonus points if they call in a super early Tac Refresh, to double up on the fun.

That's why it's such an early priority for everyone, to fight over the AA and the batteries. Just avoid the smoke, it's a good policy.

At this point in the game, it's no secret that everything hinges on the AA, because as soon as it goes, you set up such a massive tempo swing, and chain reaction, assuming your side is co-ordinated enough to push and announce what's going on. You call in the Precision on a bunker, push the whole line down, and sweep forward. The more the defenders can push you back into your redline, the less chance that has of happening.
The more you keep them there, the less they fight back. It's pretty common too, for whatever reason, for a lot of players to go into bellyflop stance, and sit on the redline and try to snipe, which doesn't work.


How do you guys approach your loadouts? Flight and I had some lengthy discussion way back in the thread, with Tim, and it was nice to see some substantial theory and justification, on everyone's choices.
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Vrals597
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:47 am

I personally have found that attackers only really use their strikes once they get to the pumps and put constant strikes down on the road that the defenders have to cross to get to the pumps to defend them.

When it comes to loadouts I try to make it varied, I'll have 2-3 with the assault rifle, 1 with the SMG, 1 with the shotgun, and 1 with the sniper rifle, just to prepare for any kind of situation that I might face, the MGs just have too much recoil for me to handle effectively, so I don't really use them lol
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Endlo-
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:11 am

I...cannot possibly think of a reason why you'd waste strikes on securing towers. That's awful. Once you have the leverage of downing an Anti-Air, you need to push that advantage as hard as you can. The Towers should honestly be an afterthought, because the focus absolutely needs to be on shifting the front-line, and pushing the defense back.

The first priority should be to Precision a bunker, to create a large enough hole in the front-line, to sweep in behind, and push the whole line down. Once you have the bunker-line down, and have pushed that side back into their letters, you can start to creep foward, and take out other backfield structures, and then pressure the towers, because you're dividing their attention, and they're at a huge disadvantage, in terms of spawn location.


Sounds like you've got a fair variety of loadouts, vrals. Out of curiosity, which sniper do you use?
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Vrals597
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:32 am

Since I'm on SVER I use the AVRK or whatever the last sniper you get is, don't have anything in the sniper tree so its pretty basic but its still amazing to use lol
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Static-Star1
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:42 am

AGVK, only useful for sniping paratroopers IMO.
And what he means by spawn camping the defenders, is that the attackers, even if they don't have the letters in their control or not, will call in their strikes on the roads that the defenders have to cross to get to the letters. Properly timed strikes will ALWAYS get at least 10-15 kills. But yeah, Valor's weapons are off the F'in charts, mang. got my slot b up last night and played one sabo and goddamn, I got at least 5 kills with the starting AR. Quite beast for the T1 starter.

EDIT: When you get the welcome back bundle the DLC's become free because you're PS plus. So I'm getting boh for free Cool
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FlightOfGrey
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
After the initial OIC fight for the first Jam, it's not that uncommon for an early set of strikes to soften the first wave of attackers, to set up that early push back to the redline. Bonus points if they call in a super early Tac Refresh, to double up on the fun.

That's why it's such an early priority for everyone, to fight over the AA and the batteries. Just avoid the smoke, it's a good policy.

At this point in the game, it's no secret that everything hinges on the AA, because as soon as it goes, you set up such a massive tempo swing, and chain reaction, assuming your side is co-ordinated enough to push and announce what's going on. You call in the Precision on a bunker, push the whole line down, and sweep forward. The more the defenders can push you back into your redline, the less chance that has of happening.
The more you keep them there, the less they fight back. It's pretty common too, for whatever reason, for a lot of players to go into bellyflop stance, and sit on the redline and try to snipe, which doesn't work.

This is something that I have never understood with MAG, is why do OICs fight for the jam? I always let the other OIC use their jam first and then listen to the platoon leaders b!t_h to me about how I'm a noob and shouldn't be OIC.

The way I do it, and the way that I think is more beneficial to the team when defending is to use it when a AAA goes down. I use it then so that it stops the enemies who got it down from striking it, making it easier for the platoon where it is down to repair it again. I think that this is much more logical and helpful rather then waste it at the start when the attackers already can't call in strikes becqause of the AAA. All it does is stop them from fragoing stuff which is pointless as if you have an experienced enough party/team with mics then you shouldn't need frago anyway.

For attack though I do like to get the jam in first if I can to give our team a headstart without being pummeled by airstrikes. But if I don't get it in first then I use it just before the enemies one refreshes, so if they get the first jam in at 29:40ish then I jam them at 20:00ish, pushing back their jam by another 3 mins extending the time for my team to use their strikes without being jammed. Then I jam them at 17:00ish forcing them to rejam me at 14:00ish, then I get a final jam on them at 4:00ish leaving them with only 1min left to have us jammed for which gives us an extra 2mins unjammed against them. The thing with this is though is that there are contracts now which reduce the refresh time for the strikes which you have to be aware of who controls them and when the enemies are going to be refreshed.

This is how I like to do it, much more tactically than the insta-jam option most OICs take.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know.. I'm trying to go after the "Precious Cargo" trophy, but it's such a pain in the ass to try and destroy one of those things! I have to camp in the back and wait for someone to open the port, kill him, and destroy it before bluedots swarm it. And that's only if a red dot even sneaks through

The easiest way to destroy escort vehicles is to be the squad leader. What you do is you play your normal game running around killing, when you see that an enemy is unlocking the escort vehicle you want to put a sensor shell out right in front of it asap. The sensor shells have a bit of a splash zone on them so put it a little bit ahead of where the escort vehicle is caged so that if they do unlock it when they drive it forward it will be destroyed by your sensor shell and there's no where to run for it, it also destroys vehicles which are under buildings so like on Ravens aquisition you can still strike it, and destroy it even if it's still in the box under the building.

This method is by far the easiest way to get them, I personally now have around 35 destroyed and always save my sensor shells for escort vehicles. Hopefully that will make it a bit easier for you.
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Endlo-
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:09 am

It's a good point, Flight, and this is why I love having you around. You have a much different perspective, on things, in a very competitive and logical sense, but it tends to differ slightly from the norm.

I think the biggest thing, in regards to the initial Jam, is insecurity. Most OICs/Platoons don't communicate, they don't think, beyond winging strikes, and most of the time, you're kind of having to rely on functioning as autonomous squads, independent of direction. I can't tell you the number of times I've jumped on the officer chat, and told OICs and Platoon Leads that they needed to take a minute, and think about what they were telling us to do.

I agree with you, on the Jam. I think the biggest argument, in favor of having the defense pull the first Jam, is that you're able to use that first set of strikes to push the defense back towards the redline. Granted, a few competent squads should more than be able to handle pushing the attacks back from the towers, and back towards the line, but there it is. It's an...insurance policy, of sorts, and it's become so ingrained in MAG's culture, that it's a necessity for the defending OIC to Jam first, otherwise you somehow start on the back foot. I don't understand it, but I do understand the logic behind wanting to use early strikes to push back. It also gives you an artificial sense of efficiency, and benefit, because you get the "maximized" value on your strikes, in being able to call more. The benefit is largely negligible, but I think those are really the chief reasons.
You bring up a good point as well, from looking at it from the attacking OIC perspective, in really wanting to land that early Jam, to shield your guys from early strikes, and I think it's that sense of logic, in reverse, as well, that factors into the "need" for defending OICs to land the first jam. The defense is still largely favored in the beginning, but there's a psychological aspect as well, that plays into that, and that security of having that immunity from early strikes, versus not having it. There's also the feeling of being disorganized by the early Jam, especially since it's pretty hard to find an OIC who can communicate and establish an open line of priority and sense of command to their Platooon Leads, and then down to the Squads.



I think it's also hard, for your bog-standard OIC to call in the jam as the AAA goes down, to prevent the Precision from dropping your bunker. It's a tricky bit of timing, but I do agree with the logic behind it. I think it's one of those things that's also become so ingrained in the culture of MAG leadership, because it's not something that's commonly accepted as a correct way to handle it. And we both know how kick-friendly people can get. Sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not, but it's pretty common, but those "mistakes" are something the vocal people are quick to jump on, and it's a bit of a bandwagon a lot of times, with kicks, unless you have the number advantage to make your kick impossible.


Censor love! Learn them, love them, use them often. So handy. Sometimes that works, sometimes you get random destroys by winging it. My favorite was actually being able to tag one just in time with the AGVK, and lucking into the kill. I didn't deserve it, in any way, but I'll take it, regardless.
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FlightOfGrey
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:53 am

I love our discussions, I have missed your well thought out lengthy posts Endlo-.

I understand what you mean with the defending team not being able to get their strikes off for the first 3mins as you get jammed, but the thing is that you are still going to use the same amount of strikes (assuming that the mortar battery never goes down) as you would if the OIC had jammed them at the start all it means is that your first strikes are going to be 3 minutes into the game.

But the defence start off with an advantage anyway, they spawn first, so there's enough time to frago your bunker. You also have a friggin bunker turret helping you defend and those things mow down people like they're daisies. So in my mind strikes aren't essential at the start of a match, if your bunker does go down though, which normally wouldn't take less than 3 minutes. You still have your strikes which you haven't wasted at the start of the match, to help you move back up and you can use them for a bit of cover for the guys repairing. In my eyes this is a more useful use of strikes as opposed to the start of the match and getting a few random kills.

Personally when I am a leader of any kind with strikes I keep a wtach over the whole map and use my strikes where my team needs it, rather than using them for selfish reasons of getting a few kills although if we are just read lining then I use them wherever kills are. But a few times in close matches I have used strikes only once in matches saving them for when things get really desperate.

I have too got an escort kill from shooting at it with the sniper and it saved the game as it had barely scrapped past the red line so I was spamming at it and destroyed it so epic! But I have to say that my most epic moment in MAG that I can remember was defending on SVER's Sabo map and we were duck shooting, anyway I was using the AGVK and I got a collateral on two parachuters, one of 3 collaterals I have ever gotten on MAG that was uber epic.
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Endlo-
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:14 am

I need to get my rig back, and play some more. Apparently I'm all hazy on my cooldown times. Assuming you Jam first, on defense, and have that initial window, doesn't the cooldown/tac-refresh factor into additional strikes? I'll admit that I didn't often play OIC, so I don't know the cooldown on the Tac Refresh itself, but I would imagine that as long as you try to maximize that advantage in the window of the early-jam, you'll have at least a few possible strikes to call down, that wouldn't have been available. It might work out to be the same either way, I'll have to look into what the specific cool downs are, and do the math later, because now I'm curious.

I'm fully on your side, I'm just trying to play advocate here, to further the discussion, and show some possible conflicting ideologies and trains of thought. I mean, ideally, I think your logic on it, and how you try to handle it is great, but I'm also trying to base my earlier statements on how it often did play out, which is hardly ever ideal. It's all too common to see the early rain-down of strikes and the early Defender Jam. It's just...how MAG works, now, and it all plays into those habits, that get ingrained, and passed down through example, to newer OICs and Platoon/Squad leaders.


As far as the defense having an advantage early, absolutely. You spawn first, and that might also play into why it's so common to burn the early-game Jam, just because you can. I still think there's at least a basic psychological advantage, but it also doesn't...need to be there. I think again, it plays into, and against the ingrained habits, and what has been passed down, through example. As much as I disagree with it, and dislike it, most OICs and Platoons, hell, even a lot of Squad Leaders just...don't communicate. Either they don't know what they're doing, they're overwhelmed, or they just don't have mics. It becomes a non-issue with the OICs who've been around the block a few dozen times, and know the drill, but that's still a massive minority.

When you're trying to mount a co-ordinated attack, and early-game, try to push a few select objectives, like break a bunker, to start to push the rest of the line down, or focus on getting the AAA down, to make it easier to push the line down, there's a lot of chaos, and...if you don't know your guys, or you are flying blind, with no communication, it's far more daunting. It should be minor, but when you come into that, jammed, on attack, it almost adds to that disorientation. You're not relying on a FRAGO to tell you where to go, or what to do, you're staring down a bunkerline that's been the subject of infamy for...the entire time the game has existed, and nobody is talking. In that situation, and we've both seen this play out, countless times, as has everyone else who's really played MAG for an extended period, they tend to start bellyflopping, and trying to snipe. The ranks fall apart, early on, and unless someone can step up, and try to rally the troops, and give them a direction, it stays that way.

Between the chaos of the early-game strikes, and the early-game jam, you have the potential to throw them all off, and keep them disoriented. You add in at least some pressure from the squads moving forward to fight them back to the redline, and keep them off the towers, and out of the bunkerline and backfield, you get a lot of players who are going to be content to sit there, and try to snipe and rack up at least a few easy kills.


I think a big point to be made, for either side, is...the experience factor. If we're talking about two sets of high-profile groups, who have the chops, and the experience to know what's going on, and what needs to get done, I think the favor shifts, and some of the merits I'm trying to highlight, fade out and become non-factors. Ideally speaking, I think your situations are spot-on, and how I'd prefer to see them play out, from our OIC.

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FlightOfGrey
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:01 am

I admit that I also haven't been OIC for ages, but from what I remember and thought was that all of the OICs abilities had a cool down of 10mins, so you should be able to use each ability three times. And from memory the jam itself lasts 3 minutes. I know that like I said before there is a contract to do with one of the dlc game modes that changes the base cool down times, I'm not sure at all but I thought it was something like it took 15 seconds off the 10 min cooldown time per contract that your faction owned.

Although I have absolutely no idea what the cooldown times are for the squad and platoon leader abilites which surprises me but I'm pretty sure that the 10 min and 3min for the OIC are correct.

You playing advocate has struck a bit of doubt into my mind as to how many strikes that you would be able to get off as a lowly squad or platoon leader for each tactic. This is all hypothitcal assuming that both OICs jam as soon as they can and you are the first one to get your strikes in each time. As if your defending and your OIC gets the jam in first then you have 3 minutes (assuming that the other OIC is following the typical MAG habits) to use you strikes before you get jammed. While you are jammed your strikes are refreshing, this is where I am going to have to investigate the cooldown time, when the jam finishes your strikes should be close to being fully refreshed I think. Does this extre down time of getting a strike in first and having it refresh itself equal an extra strike per game? I'm not sure but when I play tomorrow I am going to confirm the cool down times.

I do see what you mean though that the initial jam could break squads of randoms off on their own little courses instead of acting as a cohesive team causing them to be mowed down and sit behind the red line to snipe too scared to come out. But again like you said everything changes depedning on the experience and skill of the players, because not to be bragging but personally a jam and not having a frago wouldn't change anything in my game as I know where everything is, the routes that the enemy and I like to take. But newish players who still feel out of place and aunted by the size of the maps could completely get lost and end up sitting back behind the red line where they know it's safe.

Like you say that if you have two groups of experienced skilled players who don't need frago or anything like that to keep them together then things change completely and I feel like my OIC tactics may be catering more towards these kind of players than opposed to the majority of the MAG community. Your ideas of the advantages of confusing less skilled players I hadn't thought of to be honest but I can see the advantages in it especially as it's very rare that you have two evenly matched sides where the more complicated tactics would have more of an impact.

My tactics have mainly come from experience of being a leader and noting when I get annoyed that we are jammed and feel now is the perfect time for a strike which is as the AAA goes down I always want to either strike to keep them from repairing the AAA or strike back in their main base to give us extra time to advance past their bunker line.
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:40 am

How do you play Interdiction? I got into two games last night before I logged off and didn't know wtf I was doing or where to go

EDIT: Valor has just been awarded TWO contracts in Dom. Raven has 1. SVER has none. I guess MAG 2 is coming out soon, eh, Qnt3n?
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:45 pm

I don't think any one thing I've read in a long time has made me want to run out, right this second, and drop the cash on a new TV, PS3, headset and copy of MAG. What happened to my SVER.

Good post, Flight. I'm about to bail for the night, but I'll definitely throw up a wall of text when I get back, good points. I think you're spot-on though, in what I was trying to convey, in playing advocate.
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:10 pm

I had the same reaction Endlo. I was all like "WTF boom"
I saw the scores, and Valor had a lengthy lead on use.


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Raven Valor SVER

That was the score bar when I looked :c
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FlightOfGrey
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
How do you play Interdiction? I got into two games last night before I logged off and didn't know wtf I was doing or where to go

EDIT: Valor has just been awarded TWO contracts in Dom. Raven has 1. SVER has none. I guess MAG 2 is coming out soon, eh, Qnt3n?

Wierd I saw them the other day with two contracts as well, don't worry though Endlo- it's still a rare occurance SVER hasn't lost it's death grip on the contracts just yet.

For Interdiction it is effectively like COD's Domination there are 3 points to secure and capture, when you hold a letter you make the enemies bar at the top middle of your screen go down. You win when the opposing teams bar is depleted, pretty simple really.

Every squad has their own APC in interdiction. These APCs you want to protect with your life because they mean that you can spawn anywhere where the APC is which is super handy and means you don't have to run the HUGE distances from you spawn to a letter. Typically all of the action goes down in and around the letters so you want your APC close but not right next to one.

Personally I always go to which ever letters that my team doesn't own because that's where all the kills are. But depending on your team you may just want to sit at one letter for the whole game and hold enemies off of that one letter because to win you only need to hold 2 letters.

Each game you want one squad to go and attack the enemies mortar battery because they can be devestating especially the platoon leaders gas if you gas an enemy letter prepare to get 5+ kills each time. The squad leaders sensor whell is equally as devestating especially at the very start of the game where all the APCs have to start at the same place and are all clumped together. Whenever I start a game as squad leader I put down a sensor shell at the point where the APCs have to drive past at the start, this has netted me 21 kills before in the first 20seconds as I have hit 3 APCs with one strike and killed everyone inside of them. Also when I am squad leader I tend to frago my vehicle as often you will find yourself fighting and earning xp in it's vicinity and I tend to get the most xp when I do this. Trust me I think I have over 50 mvp ribbons for the game mode, although often I get people trying to kick me for not fragoing a letter so be aware of that and if you are being kicked then listen to what they want or drop the leadership all together.

I have heard rumours that getting kills also decreases the enemies bar but unconfirmed and holding the letters make the biggest difference if enemies do even count towards winning.
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PostSubject: Re: M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"   

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M.A.G. "Massive Action Shooter"

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