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 The Lisbon Treaty

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Lod
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PostSubject: The Lisbon Treaty   Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:28 am

With the Lisbon Treaty referendum coming up (Again, apparantly the first time we said no is not good enough so there making us do it again.) in Ireland.

I still haven't got a clue wheter this is a good thing or a bad thing so I would like to ask our more knowledgable European members to put it in simpler terms, Pro's and Con's.

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SteveO1965
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:20 pm

Liam wrote:
With the Lisbon Treaty referendum coming up (Again, apparantly the first time we said no is not good enough so there making us do it again.) in Ireland.

I still haven't got a clue wheter this is a good thing or a bad thing so I would like to ask our more knowledgable European members to put it in simpler terms, Pro's and Con's.

I have read about this treaty over and over again and i still dont understand it, basically the way i see it is if you would like to see Ireland stay the way it is vote to reject it on the 2nd of October.
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eattheword
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:26 pm

Liam wrote:
With the Lisbon Treaty referendum coming up (Again, apparantly the first time we said no is not good enough so there making us do it again.) in Ireland.

I still haven't got a clue wheter this is a good thing or a bad thing so I would like to ask our more knowledgable European members to put it in simpler terms, Pro's and Con's.

In order for something to change there has to be a convincing reason to make the change. If, after all you've heard, you haven't been persuaded that the reason for the change is convincing, then vote no.

Of course, I am deeply skeptical of the Lisbon treaty as it does look like the old EU Constitution repackaged and as I am deeply suspicious of giving more powers to the organs of the EU, I would vote 'NO' myself if I were offered such a choice. One of the principal problems I have with the structure of the EU is that most real decisions seem to be made by the unelected European COmmission. The European Parliament seems little more than a BLOODY EXPENSIVE talking shop (don't get me started on the 'let's keep the French happy by having a second Parliament building in Strasbourg to which all must decamp for a week every month at great expense for no obvious purpose other than to boost the Strasbourg economy at MY expense as a taxpayer' scheme) which has no real power. At least by keeping law-making powers within my own country's governmental processes I at least can pretend I have some power by voting out crappy governments; as it is I have no say at all over the European Commission, and they are spending my money on my behalf. Add to that the fact that the auditors have refused to sign off the EU's accounts for, what is it now, TEN YEARS IN A ROW (may be more) because the EU finance systems are so deeply flawed and open to corruption.

No, I am not enamored of the way the EU has been set up or the way it functions. To give it more power at the expense of national sovereignty seems a dangerours thing to do. Finally, my own country doesn't even see the need for a written constitution, so why give the EU one which it can then use to impose even more silly laws on me which then require me to pay even higher taxes?

(You may have guessed that I am a bit of a euro-skeptic.)
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:29 am

Meh way I see it, if I dunno what it says or does It gets a no vote. Wouldn't sign a contract without reading it.

Someone told me that if we don't ratify then we get no money from the EU and the country is in recession because we voted No. the first time.

Now I dunno, but it seems a lotta fear mongering and scare tactics are been used here in order to manipulate the vote and get the result that they want. The fact that they do that, makes me want to Vote no.

Course the Irish government have at times taking it upon themselves to bypass the Cepublics constitution and just do what they feel like.

__________________________

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Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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eattheword
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:49 am

Liam wrote:
Meh way I see it, if I dunno what it says or does It gets a no vote. Wouldn't sign a contract without reading it.

Someone told me that if we don't ratify then we get no money from the EU and the country is in recession because we voted No. the first time.


Yeah, I guess the recession had nothing to do with the global credit crunch. Just a co-incidence. And all the EU countries that did ratify it are also in recession. Another co-incidence I guess. Your source sounds well informed.
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:50 am

Yuh seriously, so you would appluad my slapping of him in the face then?

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Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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Leo_337
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:14 am

Liam wrote:
Meh way I see it, if I dunno what it says or does It gets a no vote. Wouldn't sign a contract without reading it.

Reminds me of some recent telephone conversations I've had with Virgin media... They sent me a new contract to sign after switching the account into my name, due to a printing error they listed all my services twice and I called them to say I wouldn't be signing up for twice the amount we agreed. They apologised and sent another contract, this one was misprinted in that what should have been a negative amount for a discount was positive... I called again and was told this time, by a quite uninterested telephone operative, that it wouldn't make any difference and I should sign it anyway. To which I replied, if it makes no difference why do you want me to sign it in the first place? Strangely congruous to all these modern "necessary" treaties, don't you think? Rolling Eyes
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eattheword
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:24 am

I like it when people trying to sell you something, such as "upgrades" to your service say things like:

Company salesperson: "Well, you can have this extra package for only £3 a month."

Me: "Errm, no thanks, I don't want it"

Company salesperson: "But it's a very good deal"

Me: "I'm sure it is, but I don't need it"

Company salesperson: "But it's only £3, that's hardly anything"

Me: "Well, if you think £3 is so insignificant how about you pay it for me then as you clearly won't miss the money yourself?"

Company salesperson: "No"

Me: "Precisely. Goodbye."
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:27 am

Thats what the whole thing looks like to me.

Wonder if the people who are been all "YAY Lisbon Treaty is good" would go for it themselves if they felt that it wasn't their job.

The whole thing though to me looks like either nothing will change, other than getting a "President of Europe" which the people can't vote on and sounds pretty much like the Irish President... a figure head.

I'm not really seeing how this whole thing is good for anyone other than politicians. Don't see where it is supposed to be good for the people.

__________________________

Quote :
Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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eattheword
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:39 am

I think you've got your answer then. Vote early. Vote often. Vote no.
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:42 am

Grand sorted.
If Ireland doesn't ratify it does that mean that other countries won't?

__________________________

Quote :
Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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eattheword
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:48 am

It needs EVERY country to ratify it for it to go through. Our lovely govt. still hasn't said we can have a referendum on it and they look as if they might just push it through on the quick, but the point would be moot if the Irish were heroic (again) in their rejection of it. I believe the Dutch also gave the wrong answer and might be asked to vote again until they get it right too.
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:51 am

To be honest with you I think that we are going to be doing this every six months until people can understand it and see how it works in the long term.

But mostly we're gonna say no cause the Taoiseach is a B.I.F.F.O that no-one likes trust, and pretty much feel the entire government is a bunch of idiots that don't think of the people.

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The Taoiseach himself arguably dealt a damaging blow to his own side when, on 12 May 2008, he admitted in a radio interview that he had not read the Treaty of Lisbon in its entirety.

This is who we have leading our Country? Rx F-BOMB that.

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As long as I am running this Government I will run the Government as I see fit...as I believe in, based on my philosophy.

^Ummm Dictator^
America please send marines.

__________________________

Quote :
Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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Leo_337
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:04 am

Oh, right.. I see how it is...

When we send troops, you get all. Evil or Very Mad .And stuff...

[/POSSIBLYINAPPROPRIATEHUMOUR]

Laughing
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Lod
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PostSubject: Re: The Lisbon Treaty   Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 am

Leonardo_337 wrote:
Oh, right.. I see how it is...

When we send troops, you get all. Evil or Very Mad .And stuff...

[/POSSIBLYINAPPROPRIATEHUMOUR]

Laughing



I...



Oh lawd!

__________________________

Quote :
Listen to Liam. He makes sense. - Rxforwar

Quote :
"I agree with all Liam has said so far" - Seyel

Quote :
"Sorry Cel I agree with everything Liam has said so far." - Rrwatch

Quote :
"You know what I was going to do? Make a thread on here called: "Lod, the man of few words."
You don't say much do you? :3" - vengeance7times

Quote :
"Tequila and i ee in love. She nevef gives me hangover. But she lujes tl bite me when o takr her straight. Liam... i shall savw tgis for you not gonna edit. Of i do tour sllowed to have xel comr salp me.
Fuxkjb touch screeb ketboards." - iRideAPalmer


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