Welcome Dai ! . I don't know why I'm playing so crap but I think it's back to the drawing board for me .

Only played a few games today, but was definetly on my game. To top the night off with a good Elimination in the end

Yeah you did great Charlitos , great perfect elimination . As for me , well , I'd rather not talk about it . Happy to finally get a party going though .

Thanks Mitchell for helping me out with my last co-op map.
Charlitos, what happened?
You destroyed everything in sight

Mitch, don't worry about having bad days, we all get them, I had one tonight too.
After rain comes sunshine

THen a rainbow

You did fine, Mitch. Don't get your head down, though.

Ok , but i do need some more help i think . If you guys can go 17-4 and 15-5 respectively and im going 7-6 theres work to be done .

You guys realize this person hasn't provided any proof that they are in fact Dai. It could very well be me. You are all jumping to conclusions.

You're right silver, we are jumping to conclusions, but I personally doubt that this guy would take Dai's identity lol

@charlitos, are you an avatar fan, charlitos? If so, need to say its an awesome show lol

I don't understand why you immediately jump to the conclusion that he's an impostor, either. I'm supposed to be the jaded and cynical bastard of these here forums.

That being said, we'll agree to disagree, Cobalt. We'll call it a difference in ideologies. I understand why you guys are opposed, though, and I suppose it falls in line with the OMA/Tube debates that happened in the old MW2 thread. At the time though, it's still worth nothing that nobody was opposed, and we all actively used the function, Axis tag or not.


Dai can be Dai, or whoever the hell he wants to be, but it's still inappropriate to call him out on such, to me. If you had such doubts, they would've been far better served in PMs, unless this was some annoying prank to prove the point you're trying to make, by yourself, or by another user.

Endlo- wrote:

That being said, we'll agree to disagree, Cobalt. We'll call it a difference in ideologies. I understand why you guys are opposed, though, and I suppose it falls in line with the OMA/Tube debates that happened in the old MW2 thread. At the time though, it's still worth nothing that nobody was opposed, and we all actively used the function, Axis tag or not.

I think that was a typo, but it's certainly fitting. Just because everyone agreed to do it doesn't make it right. Had I caught it going on at the time I would certainly have put a stop to it. Everyone up to Six himself is answerable to the rules.

It doesn't really fall in with OMA/Tubing because those (ridiculously broken though they be) are still part of the game, intentionally included by the creators. PSN chat is not.
In any other mode you're allowed free communication with your team to encourage teamwork and social interaction. In Elimination or Search & Destroy type matches, the developers specifically took that ability away from you. Unlike other modes you are not supposed to tell your team where the enemy is when you get killed. If you were then they wouldn't have shut down your mic.
I understand wanting to use all the tools at your disposal to win, but something like this is clearly playing outside the rules.
Cheating.
That's not a matter of ideology.

I never stated my opinion as to whether it really was Dai or not. All I said was that there was no proof, and that OTHER people where making the assuptions.

On the topic of PSN chat and Skype being used by dead teammates during elimination, I have to agree with turtle and endlo, as much as it may hurt my standing in Axis. For one you have to assume that the opponent is doing the same (at least a party of them) because you really have no reason not to. I mean people use the UMP, MP40/Juggernaut, sitch, OMA/Pro-pipes all the time. Circumventing the feature put in by ND is technically cheating yes but when compared to these other choices people make in their games, it really makes me laugh that this is being taken so seriously. Some of you may think I'm being cynical or negative when I say that everyone uses (insert powerful tactic). The reality is that everyone who wants to win is. Those who don't want to win and play casually will take the moral high road because they feel compelled to. It's a set of rules they have imposed on themselves for no legitimate reason. Truth is these people can be dealt with easily in game because they are not using all the tools available to them in the game. It's no different than one choosing not to take care when moving verses one who analyzes a situation and make an appropriate decision, commonly referred to as camping.

It's certainly a difference in ideology, and that's fine. You, and the rest of Axis, have a set opinion on it, and that's fine. All I'm saying is that when the topic came up, and we, as a group, chose to utilize that tool, everyone, including members in high standing within the clan were on board. Everyone used this method, and not one person, while we were using said methods of communication, said a word against it.

I'm not going to muck up some stupid drama, it's pointless. It's clear that we have differing viewpoints on that matter, and as I'd previously expressed, multiple times, that's wonderful. It's part of what makes this place so diverse and wonderful. Spectacular, even. We see on differing levels, on the matter, much as I'd see other things on differing levels, with other members of Axis. That's fine, as people, we all play for different reasons, and have differing sets of what falls within reasonable boundaries, and it's clear that this is one of those things.

I bring up the parallel to the OMA/Tube arguments, because it was another example that fit. If I were to pick up MW2 again, I would certainly give strong consideration to using such a loadout, because there's no incentive not to. I didn't prior, because as a clan, Axis decided that it was "unfair" and chose not to utilize said tactics, and found the loadouts to be in bad taste, despite being well within the intended set of rules. Again, a set of differing viewpoints, and ideologies on gameplay and fairness.

The PSN chat was a strong tool for us to use, and at the time, we all felt as such, and utilized it as such. If Axis feels the need to set a guideline on this, and make an executive decision, and statement saying that they disapprove and that users of the PSN chat in Elimination is outside of their boundaries, and their comfort zone, that's understandable. It wouldn't be the first time such a decision has been made, and I'm sure that it won't be the last. That doesn't change the fact that it was a strong tool for us to be using, and I simply offered my opinion as such. If it's that large an issue, then consider discussing with current members of Axis, the ramifications of their actions, and how you feel it represented the clan poorly, and will continue to do as such, if the chats are used. It was an edge, and we all partook of it.

The whole point of that rule is to make us look good. Truth is because of this specific case no one could have known (much less cared). They could only speculate.

Funny. Usually when everyone agrees on something, that means it's allowed. I'm not sure the etiquette on an uninvolved person claiming the aforementioned allowed something to be cheating after said something is long past over, but I'll go off on a limb and assume it doesn't change anything. It being a rule since forever didn't change the fact that we did it.

Silver's on the right track, though. It's an act that means little to nothing, since the only way someone else would find out would be if we spoke of it constantly. Is it cheating if nobody else knows? If nobody can tell, then it must not be very severe, anyway.

What is going on in this thread?

Keep the chat specific to the game.
Things that can be dealt with elsewhere can be dealt with else where.
Who plays what and how has nothing to do with this topics title.

Back on track people.

To be fair, we've been on topic. We've been discussing things that pertain to the game, in terms of what is considered cheating on it. Everything we've mentioned that hasn't been specifically about UC2 has been analogies about UC2 or the current discussion at hand, such as Endlo bringing up the point that voice chat during an Uncharted 2 Elimination match is cheating because it's not an in-game function (it is in fact a system function), but at the same time, OMA/Tubing from MW2 is also cheating/unfair, while it is clearly something that was incorporated into the game, whether intentionally or not.

Merely seeking to further our discussion about Uncharted 2 and seeking clarification. The topic has not been left.

Vash Watters wrote:

Is it cheating if nobody else knows? If nobody can tell, then it must not be very severe, anyway.

woah... extremely flawed argument. If i go out and kill a few people but no one finds out it was me, does it make it ok for me to keep going? If i cheat a poker and win, but the other players cant tell, its ok?

i guess what youre saying is, go ahead and cheat. its ok as long as you dont get caught?

band-aid wrote:

Vash Watters wrote:

Is it cheating if nobody else knows? If nobody can tell, then it must not be very severe, anyway.

woah... extremely flawed argument. If i go out and kill a few people but no one finds out it was me, does it make it ok for me to keep going? If i cheat a poker and win, but the other players cant tell, its ok?

i guess what youre saying is, go ahead and cheat. its ok as long as you dont get caught?

That's a rather proportionate version of what I said.

Using a chat feature in a game causes no physical or psychological harm. It may cause some emotional harm, but it's a blind effect in that the person(s) being effected by the "cheating" would face emotional harm (and in rare cases, subsequent psychological harm) that would be caused by the loss, not the realization that cheating occurred.

Your descriptions involve societal and ethical laws being broken on a grander, realistic scale. Assume that there was no authority to prevent such things; the only obstacle would be your ethical and moral values. Now, assume that the group in which you belong and interact with on a personal level decides, despite past positions and discussions, that killing people is completely ethical and legal. For all you know, it's legal.

You can cheat if there is no repercussions and all ethical considerations are discarded by your peers, yes.

using something to youre advantage in a way its not supposed to be used, is cheating. theres a reason the mics are cut off when you die. im sure the intention wasnt that it meant you should move to chat. it meant you shouldnt be conversing with teammates that are still alive (we all know this, i know ). circumventing that means youre cheating. just cause no one got hurt doesnt making it ok. cheating is cheating no matter how you try to slice it. By your logic its ok for people to boost in COD or use prestige hacks/glitches

"You can cheat if there is no repercussions and all ethical considerations are discarded by your peers, yes"

maybe amongst youre friends, its ok. but im sure a majority of the actual U2 community would look at what you did as cheating.


nice sig btw. makes me want to go make one now haha

Ah, but the actual UC2 community has no way of knowing that anything happened. And you are assuming that the actual UC2 community does not do the same thing. On something as trivial (in a casual sense) as this/something as major as being able to shout out enemy positions in Elimination, there will be those that ignore it (casual, newer players) and those that embrace it (competitive players/clans). The odds that nobody does it out of honor, especially with such an act that has to actively be exposed by those who partake in it, is a bit shortsighted.

The authorities (Naughty Dog, in this case) have made no comment on it, which would lead any neutrality to assume that they have no problem with it. When legality isn't an issue, it comes down to ethical standards, which are set almost entirely by societal factors and group (clan) collaborations. Contrary to what may be written, the consensus during the act was that it was entirely ethical, and in the eyes of those participating, not cheating. Without an authority and without a clear, unbiased account from a larger community perspective, there is no repercussions or shame in what happened, aside from what this community itself dictates that to be.

And based on the fact that the event transpired at all, one would be fair to assume that the opinion on the subject is loose at best within community members.

i think its time we agree to disagree. we're off topic and this one of those ones that can go back and forth for as long as one wants to have it go back and forth.

good chat

i wish this game would allow me to go online... i would have loved to play it

it broke after one of the first patches

Leo_337 wrote:

s1lv3r4554551n wrote:

Melons, in the future try to remember to use the "edit" button when you wish to add to the thread but no one has commented. It's to the left at the bottom of your posts. I know it's tempting to just fire away and raise that post count but no one's going to think higher of you when you have 200 spammy posts. 50 helpful posts are worth hundreds of spammy ones.

How did you meet Arne Leo?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Actually the edit button is top right of your posts... Thank you, Silver.

BTW, on that subject, multi-quote only works when you use the reply button, not the Quick-reply box at the bottom of the thread. Just click it on all the posts you want to reply to and then hit the reply button, they'll all be quoted in the box already for you to comment on.

Thankyou Leo. I couldn't get the multiquote to work. I thought it was my phone as I had to put it in airplane mode the next day and it wouldn't let me go online after that. (yes I did turn airplane mode off)
Anyhow it's fixed now.

It's good to have you back Vash! Love to get some games in with you if you're down for that. I'm sure there will be at least a few people online tomorrow.

Uncharted 2 belonged to a part of my life that has been left behind with time, I'm afraid.

However, this part of my life will have Killzone 3. And bottle rockets. Massive damage to a single enemy.

Raist , how about gaming up 2morrow ( or tonight for you ) ? .

It would be great also if you went online silver , the "retired pro " returns .