Endlo- wrote:

I love you too, my dearest Reonista. I feel like your bromance, and soon, the hot-oil rubdowns are going to be exported to the domain the ESRaistlin, though.

As far as not doing a booster "justice" Vrals, there isn't a right or wrong way to use it. I never spammed it either, and because I'd spent the last...80-levels or what have you, worth of play without it, I learned how to camp, and use other sources of information. Teammates, the direction of fire, sound, the kill ticker, even proximity chatter were all just as useful. It's just another source of information. If you do a quick tap up, before heading into a new area, or to check a blindspot, that's just as valid and correct as if you were to start "spamming" it.

I think the reason I view Evasion so low, is that I've never viewed Situational Awareness as a gameplan, in and of itself. It's an enabler, and an additional source of information. It's completely up to the player themselves and how capable they are, of interpreting what they're learning and how to react accordingly, to achieve the best results.

I think one of the biggest...misconceptions, or misunderstandings, of Situational, is that it's merely information. It's not a gameplan, it doesn't give you a little pop-up saying aim here, spray in 3...2...1, it's still completely player dependent. The perspective that I got, from so many players who raged against me for using Situational implies some kind of auto-pilot situation, where I hold up, grab a beer, and go 11-1.

I agree with you endlo but what IS frustrating is when somone walks by you, hits up and spins around as you're about to kill them, resulting in a panic nade or a steel fist to the jaw. It does give you kills occasionally. True you have to get the hang of panic nades but they would have NEVER seen you there if they didn't have SA. That is frustrating.

Also just because there's many options doesn't make the game balanced (it would if they helped). Example sure shot. Few choices mean a better measure of skill and less things that define how good you are.

I believe that booster choices should cater to a specific playstyle but it's not bad that they're open ended I just like knowing that X will actively help me with my immediate goal. For some people it's SA because they aren't aware of their surroundings. For some people it's SA because there's just too many walls on that map. For some it's DTI because they use the AK on the side but mostly the FAL. For some it's DTI because they want flexibility at long and short ranges.

The truth is that very few other boosters in this game will give you much advantage at all.

Vash was weird that way. I also have no doubt that he would have been extremely good if he had chosen one playstyle. The fact that he did well in public matches with different playstyles isn't that amazing to be honest. I can do well camping and go very positive despite the fact that I hardly ever do that. I can also run everywhere and catch people off guard (which I do frequently) with good results. I can rush with a shot gun and do decent but I could also practice and do it VERY well. My point is that he would have been way better at one thing if he had chosen to. He chose to do everything and everything he did held up against casual players. I congratulate him because it not easy to best most people with every playstyle but he could never compete in an MLG setting with good skills all around because they would do something exclusively and master it putting his good skill to shame. He has to be better (which he is in public games) or die.

This is where I come from. I have no intent on playing MLG. I do however like to stop some scrub who thinks he's amazing because he's on the leaderboards. That's just me. I love making them ragequit (crushing dreams, as you and Reo so eloquently put it) and then saving the file for a rainy day.

Also I'm sorry if I skewed your apparent views to others I didn't mean to. You have been gone for a while after all.

do/did they actually have MLG games for U2? Seems to me that U2 isn't mainstream enough for them lol

Reo wrote:

THAT WAS NOT PART OF THE DEAL!

He is altering your deal. Pray he does not alter it further.

Turtle: Haha, thanks for the advice, I guess I'll settle for that one then.

By the way, thanks for the games, all of you which I have played with during these last couple of days. It's really nice talking to you and feel that I'm still part of this awesome community.

One thing that really amazed me is that how you guys are away for some time only to come back better than ever. You are all much better at this game than I remembered

Love to all of you guys, come here!

Lol , I almost got a FAL fury on the temple last night , sad it ended by a bad spawning of an SA user , died on 9

That sucks, Mitch, that is where it comes in handy to have a party, us guys at the nation would have had your back and you would most likely have gotten that fury, the spawns are annoying sometimes, particularly when events like what happened to you occur

Gah, I still can't stand the FAL after I used it for like, 2 months. I love how quick it drops people, but it sucks so bad in close range, 'specially when people decide to steel fist you.

I can't tell you how many times I have come across people in the high 50s just steel fist me, it is totally illogical for someone that high to do it, fine a person in the 1-20/30 range but someone who is 50+? absolutely no sense

Uh, don't you have that backwards? Most newbies don't know not to punch first, whereas if you're experienced enough to make it that high you should at least know how to Steel Fist.

lol not sure if you are joking but sorry to say that that is not true lol

Wait, wait, are we using the same definition of "Steel Fist"?

I believe he's calling it overpowered. Not to be mean but I have no idea why.

I'm not calling it overpowered, although it is a little unrealistic/ridiculous how much damage punching does in this game, what I am saying is that if you punch someone BEFORE shooting them a couple of times first then you are basically guaranteeing yourself a non-trade death, players like me will usually have you almost down before you punch us, if you just rushed at us with us aiming down the sights at you and putting bullets into you, and just punching us will usually give us the extra time we need to bring you down, I have also encountered this when people just blindfire me, or I blindfire them like a complete idiot lol

For future reference, the working definition of "Steel Fist" is "blindfire to soften, then punch to finish them off." I think you're confusing "Steel Fist"ing with regular melee.

oh, I always thought that it meant just running up to people and punching them, w/e doesn't matter anymore lol

I wish that this forum enable a facepalm big enough.

Situational, in the example that you provided, Silver, was the cause of your death, because you made a judgement/play error. You shouldn't have been in the range of steel-fist trade-kill. THe panic nade is irrelevant, again, because you either rushed into the situation, when it was unnecessary, and put yourself in undue risk, or weren't able to capitalize on your advantage enough to get the kill, without being disrupted by a grenade. Most panic grenades aren't aimed well enough for you to even care, and if it was a martyr grenade to the feet, it became your error.

Having an abundance of boosters doesn't make the game balanced, you're correct. This game isn't balanced, because of all the booster options, excluding Badges, a whopping...5 or 6 boosters see any significant amount of play. That doesn't mean that having those 5 boosters mean a balanced play environment either, because it means that Naughty Dog failed to equalize the playfield, even after nerfing both Down the Irons, and Situational Awareness. In a more balanced field, there would be a signifcant amount of justifiable and playable boosters, in either slot, and not just the standard DTI/Fleet, Sitch/Fleet, Sitch/Power Weapon Ammo combinations.

Having a larger number of playable boosters also isn't mututally exclusive with being able to show the skill of a player. It allows a much deeper possible level of customization, and nuance, as well as the ability of a player to rationalize combinations and situations that make their combinations ideal, or force them to evolve conversation, to find ideal set-ups. MAG was a good example of this, after the 2.0 update, with the revamped skill trees. There were hours of conversations on AIM, in-game with PPH, and even some here on the forums, justifying and arguing particular skill builds, or how the exclusion/inclusion of a skill could dramatically shift performance, and in what situations.

As far as Vash goes, he was one of the most consistent players of our parties, in public and in private matches, against the "elite" of this game. He knew that he was talented enough to do well, using nothing, and that's what he most often did. GAU-camping, terrible boosters, and ridiculous playstyles and strategies still put him far above the average. He was also more than able to handle himself in lobbies where he needed to be composed, and have excellent execution, as well as being able to discuss and push tactical changes, that needed to happen. He's also part of the reason we've been able to push most of the information into this community, that we did, about Uncharted 2's mechanics, like Grenades having a cone-styled blast radius, rate of fire and damage changes, on a per-update basis, and a large number of the concepts that we were able to share with you guys, as far as tactical approaches to holding maps went. Those are things that we theorized, tested, and perfected, and a lot of it was shared here.

We were able to break the Shotgun Lab, as well. As large a joke as that lab was, we were still able to come up with the ideal booster set-up within a few minutes of conversation, camping strategies for most of the maps, and we even held our own against again, some of this game's 'Elite', self-proclaimed or otherwise. If having only public lobbies is clearly a dismissal of skill, or the justification of the lack thereof, then how can we accurately meter any of ourselves? Should I base any kind of criticism or evaluation on private recorded matches, against "pro" Uncharted players?


Vrals, Turtle already corrected you, but Steel-Fisting is a popular, and legitimately useful strategy. It also makes a fair bit of sense for high-levels to use it, I did so pretty frequently, when moving around as a mobile camper, or in areas where there was an abundance of corners, especially in high-traffic areas. It's far more efficient to blindfire once or twice, with the FS, and melee, to get your kill, and keep going. You should rarely find yourself in those situations, but apparently I view movement and the understanding of the flow of traffic in a map in a weird way, comparatively.

Static, the FAL is fine at close-range. I've used it....countless times in close-range encounters, even against DTI/Fleet users with AKs, and walked away. It's not the easiest gun to use, but it's hardly bad. There's also your handgun, which is more than suitable to handle most of your close-range encounters. Work your strafe more, and learn how to adjust the aim of a FAL, as opposed to an AK. They have different philosophies, even when not aiming down the sight.

Endlo, I have to admit that it sucks that you aren't pumped for U3, I would love to see what you and Vash would come up with for that game, strategy wise that is

And although that it is true that steel-fisting is a great strategy, I myself will use it from time to time, but when that is the only thing that a person does more times than not I find that they are just robbing themselves of kills

Endlo- wrote:

Situational, in the example that you provided, Silver, was the cause of your death, because you made a judgement/play error. You shouldn't have been in the range of steel-fist trade-kill. THe panic nade is irrelevant, again, because you either rushed into the situation, when it was unnecessary, and put yourself in undue risk, or weren't able to capitalize on your advantage enough to get the kill, without being disrupted by a grenade. Most panic grenades aren't aimed well enough for you to even care, and if it was a martyr grenade to the feet, it became your error.

I never said anything about who's error it was (for the record I agree that, in that hypothetical scenario, it would have been my fault). I only said it was frustrating, not to be confused with "noobish", which I didn't say it was.

People on this side of the argument commonly rationalize their poor decisions and lack of awareness as it not being their fault. That SA is overpowered. To an extent yes. One of the best strategies I came up with on sanctuary (worst spawns in the game in case you forgot) is to "camp" the underground with SA. Is it fun for your opponents? Hellz no. Is it a way to do consistently well on a map that is otherwise consistency proof? Yes. Smart players in the community have realized this and they get labeled scrubs or campers when the real scrubs are the ones who can't change their style to counter a rather static obstacle.

PS that facepalm comment wasn't necessary.

Necessary? No. Relevant, and topical? Absolutely. If you're going to call me out on a comment followed by a wall of text that's on topic, and addresses multiple posters, then...you might want to consider also pointing out the multitude of absolutely useless comments that plague these boards.

On that subject, was there much point to pointing out multiple times, or inferring to a lack of skill on Vash's part? Do you have any evidence of him not competing in MLG? Is MLG relevant to anything at hand? What about your point of only public matches? We played plenty of private matches, but it was never relevant. We did it to troll and harass people who ran their mouths and wanted to "best" us in an environment that suited them, and they still couldn't.


As far as Situational, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, exactly. You came up with a hypothetical situation, where you were at fault for your death, and then used Situational Awareness to rationalize the death, but...don't agree with what you posted? It had nothing to do with what I posted, then. Situational still didn't "generate" a kill, and it only did, if you made a mistake, which...is how the game works anyway. By that logic, everyone should run Revenge, because it is the only booster in the game that has the power to directly generate a kill, and it can only do that on a ridiculous set of play errors, at that, which in your situation, still puts it right on par with Situational Awareness.


As far as camping Sanctuary, I'm well aware of the spawns on that map, and if you recall, it was my least favorite map, followed closely by the Ice Caves. Vash and I have camped the bottom of that map forever, and we used Situational and Come Get Some, to accomplish that. CGS let us act as bait, and we covered each other. It's not always easy, with the numerous entry options into the bottom level of the map, but it's still entirely possible for two people to hold down the bottom, especially with a co-ordinated team of 5 to cover entrances and set-up flanks.

As far as fun for my opponents, I don't care, and neither should anyone else. I don't put a disc into my PS3, sign into PSN, and then into a competitive multiplayer game, to engage in a friendly round of drunken fisticuffs. As long as you're not breaking the rules of game via glitch or exploit, it's irrelevant how you play, and how you affect your opposition. Hell, I've always been in favor of being verbally aggressive and using "unfun" tactics, because it puts the opposition on tilt, which directly benefits me.

The same goes for labels. I don't care what anyone wants to label me, or refer to me as. If you don't like that I play to win, and use whatever tactics are appropriate to the map, gametype, or situation at hand, you're more than welcome to drop mid-game, leave the lobby afterwords, and you can even send me mean messages afterwards, and challenge me to 1v1 games. I've dealt with more than enough people who wanted to act tough, or call me out, and then they get real quiet when you embarrass them a second time, in a situation they engineer to be more favorable for them. Who cares what someone refers to you as? Put up a win, and let your numbers speak for themselves.

Endlo- wrote:

On that subject, was there much point to pointing out multiple times, or inferred to a lack of skill on Vash's part? Do you have any evidence of him not competing in MLG? Is MLG relevant to anything at hand? What about your point of only public matches? We played plenty of private matches, but it was never relevant. We did it to troll and harass people who ran their mouths and wanted to "best" us in an environment that suited them, and they still couldn't.


As far as Situational, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, exactly. You came up with a hypothetical situation, where you were at fault for your death, and then used Situational Awareness to rationalize the death, but...don't agree with what you posted? It had nothing to do with what I posted, then. Situational still didn't "generate" a kill, and it only did, if you made a mistake, which...is how the game works anyway. By that logic, everyone should run Revenge, because it is the only booster in the game that has the power to directly generate a kill, and it can only do that on a ridiculous set of play errors, at that, which in your situation, still puts it right on par with Situational Awareness.


As far as camping Sanctuary, I'm well aware of the spawns on that map, and if you recall, it was my least favorite map, followed closely by the Ice Caves. Vash and I have camped the bottom of that map forever, and we used Situational and Come Get Some, to accomplish that. CGS let us act as bait, and we covered each other. It's not always easy, with the numerous entry options into the bottom level of the map, but it's still entirely possible for two people to hold down the bottom, especially with a co-ordinated team of 5 to cover entrances and set-up flanks.

As far as fun for my opponents, I don't care, and neither should anyone else. I don't put a disc into my PS3, sign into PSN, and then into a competitive multiplayer game, to engage in a friendly round of drunken fisticuffs. As long as you're not breaking the rules of game via glitch or exploit, it's irrelevant how you play, and how you affect your opposition. Hell, I've always been in favor of being verbally aggressive and using "unfun" tactics, because it puts the opposition on tilt, which directly benefits me.

The same goes for labels. I don't care what anyone wants to label me, or refer to me as. If you don't like that I play to win, and use whatever tactics are appropriate to the map, gametype, or situation at hand, you're more than welcome to drop mid-game, leave the lobby afterwords, and you can even send me mean messages afterwards, and challenge me to 1v1 games. I've dealt with more than enough people who wanted to act tough, or call me out, and then they get real quiet when you embarrass them a second time, in a situation they engineer to be more favorable for them. Who cares what someone refers to you as? Put up a win, and let your numbers speak for themselves.

No MLG is not relevant to the subject at hand but that wasn't the point. The point was that MLG has the best players in their respective environments. The only thing I insinuated is that he would have trouble with this from choosing to be great at everything instead of dominant at one thing. I never once said he was a bad player. I pretty much said he was a great player able to best almost anyone. I don't know how you got an insult from that but I sincerely apologize to you and Vash.

I'll say it again. The point of that hypothetical scenario is to show how Situational can be frustrating. THAT IS ALL. I didn't say it was the all the boosters fault. I equated it with the thousands of other choices that make up a game's outcome EDIT: Sorry. I actually never did equate this with the choices made in a game so I'll do it now. It's just a choice, either made before or during the game like so many others that affects the game. I agree it's a little unbalanced but it's nothing to complain over. I'm not complaining here I'm just saying it's frustrating.. I said that casual players who don't take the time to think about it will say Sitch killed them. I did not say that Sitch killed me.

Good games today, Charlitos and Raist, sure was a lot of fun, particularly getting in my second round of games with Raist EVER! lol

Got my first batch of U2 hate mail today, some guy rage quit a game and said that I cheated because the bullets were going by him and he still got killed, so I said to him that it was the lag and he said that that excuse was old......

good playin with Charlitos and Vrals. We had some good ones Not too many bunny hoppers or trashtalkers either. Good times. I feel whole again hehe.


Oh....and that lag excuse is oooo old :p

although it might be old, since how many months ago was it? lol, how is it cheating when I do shit to you that happens to me all the time and is completely out of my control? glitching is cheating because you are in control over whether or not you glitch but if my bullets hit you or not? particularly if you are behind a wall? sorry but that is more bad luck than anything else

Vrals597 wrote:

although it might be old, since how many months ago was it? lol, how is it cheating when I do shit to you that happens to me all the time and is completely out of my control? glitching is cheating because you are in control over whether or not you glitch but if my bullets hit you or not? particularly if you are behind a wall? sorry but that is more bad luck than anything else

I was just buggin ya dude. I agree that no one can help lag. Unless they have a crap connection to start with. Obviously it is a legitimate reason

Yeah, sorry I had to sign out early. My dad made ribs. I'll put it this way. When my dad makes ribs, the last thing that I want to be doing is playing Uncharted YUMMMM!

I was playing horribly anyway.