Ouch, Reo. I guess I'm gonna have to step up and defend my honor here soon, eh? Dude gets you once with the FAL, and he's king of the red dot. Silly swedes.

The Pistole has some range on it. Don't be afraid to wing some long-range shots, it's worked pretty well for us. I think the current assist record is 14 now for Deathmatch, held by our very own VashWatters. To throw some other ranges out there, we've gotten people all the way up the center stairs on Temple, from the Hammer spawn, and Vash got me from far away on the Train Wreck. I was past the Sniper/Propane tank, and he was by the train that rolls off the map.

Aimed Pistoles can be pretty good at managing the mobs people roll in too. I've gotten a few Connect Fours this weekend by double-tapping, hopping around like an idiot, until I reload, then repeating. You should be beating out the Moss at even a moderate range with your aim. Sometimes it whiffs, but really, that's the risk of pellet-based weapons.

I'm hoping to get another Rage today, those are always welcome. My best for The Lab has been that game, at 17-2. Another handy tip is use those tanks. BBQs are a great way to add some range to encounters, and it's easy to set up traps in high traffic areas with people being so reckless.

yeah I did that today on a guy on The Temple who was shooting at my team while hiding behind a pillar, chucked the thing at the pillar and got myself a Defender and BBQ, I shot the tank through the stairs though which I don't get why it happened, guess its that instant auto aim on the tank thing that goes on

edit: I really think ND should make a shotgun only playlist because even though I don't always go positive the games are very fast, like five minutes a game which makes for fast lvling

Yeah, the auto-aim on the tanks can be really odd at times. The tanks are definitely really useful, it's weird to see how underused they still seem to be.

This has been an awesome lab. It's pretty forgiving to negatives, BBQs are easy to get, and even stealth kills have been pretty easy to come by. It's nice too to be able to hop around all game with a shotgun, I'm enjoying the change of pace.

Yeah and I don't mind walking around with CGS on because its not like I would like have much time to react anyway, I think I am currently using the pistole and using Point and Shoot, I might go back to the shotgun and From the Hip but not sure, I played for 30 mins today and that is probably all I will be able to get in until maybe the 17th/18th if not the 21st but oh well, when I return I am going to pull out some big weapon on some map by myself and just fire that thing until I turn blue, or maybe just go into a DM with double negs and just work my way to 59, have about 4.7 million left

and I forgot, congrats on the 59, Charlitos, oh and on the 60, Endlo, they are probably really late but as you can probably tell I just came back like two days ago lol

Raistlin wrote:

Hey there Static

Welcome to the community! Check out the intro thread if you would like.

For shotty users, the key is to keep your distance. If you're lucky enough to see one, just back away while shooting. Or, if they're closer, try and create some distance first or drop a nade while running away to create that distance. If they catch you off guard, you're out of luck

Thanks for the tips. If I'm correct, then I'm pretty sure I got directed here by one of your Uncharted 2 videos. And most of the things you say about the game I agree on. Such as higher levels spamming power weapons. I've actually had matches with 5 or more level 60's just spamming shotguns or the RPGs.

Static-Star1 wrote:

Raistlin wrote:

Hey there Static

Welcome to the community! Check out the intro thread if you would like.

For shotty users, the key is to keep your distance. If you're lucky enough to see one, just back away while shooting. Or, if they're closer, try and create some distance first or drop a nade while running away to create that distance. If they catch you off guard, you're out of luck

Thanks for the tips. If I'm correct, then I'm pretty sure I got directed here by one of your Uncharted 2 videos. And most of the things you say about the game I agree on. Such as higher levels spamming power weapons. I've actually had matches with 5 or more level 60's just spamming shotguns or the RPGs.

I can guarantee that a bunch of us are not like that, myself included, but we will pick them up if we see them

Vrals597 wrote:

Static-Star1 wrote:

Raistlin wrote:

Hey there Static

Welcome to the community! Check out the intro thread if you would like.

For shotty users, the key is to keep your distance. If you're lucky enough to see one, just back away while shooting. Or, if they're closer, try and create some distance first or drop a nade while running away to create that distance. If they catch you off guard, you're out of luck

Thanks for the tips. If I'm correct, then I'm pretty sure I got directed here by one of your Uncharted 2 videos. And most of the things you say about the game I agree on. Such as higher levels spamming power weapons. I've actually had matches with 5 or more level 60's just spamming shotguns or the RPGs.

I can guarantee that a bunch of us are not like that, myself included, but we will pick them up if we see them

That's good. You should see my stats. I have hardly any kills at all with the bitch weapons , as I call them, but I have been in matches where I go 4/12 or something mostly because I'm with laggers who use the shotty. I'll find them, and then my screen will freeze, and the netxt screen is the respawn screen. I have this problem a lot with some guy....

I try to avoid going after them but if I find them you better believe I will pick them up, well I guess you can say that I use a bitch weapon, the sniper rifle, but at least that takes aim

I ask this, not because I'm trying to seem self-righteous or snarky, but why do some of you guys have such a disdain for power, or the players who use them? It's hardly fair to take the tone I'm getting out of your post, and refer to them as "bitch" weapons.

To me, it shows that you're defining these weapons as below you, to use. Where does that set of judgments come from? When taken to the opposite end of the spectrum, is cornersniping with a FAL not equally as powerful, and efficient as a close range shotgun? Arguably, the FAL then has uses at multiple ranges, with an even lower chance of retaliation, due to being completely obscured by the wall, or obstacle. Is that more justifiable in the metric that labels the Shotty, and I assume the RPG and Hammer as "bitch" weapons, if only because the FAL has multiple spawn points?

I ask because I want to get some conversation on it. Most of you guys know I'm a pretty play-to-win guy, and really have no qualms about power, or things like using Situational. To me, it's all fair game, which admittedly differs a bit from some other mindsets. With that said, it was interesting to see some of your weapon stats pages, to see what your habits seemed to be.

Endloslung wrote:

I ask this, not because I'm trying to seem self-righteous or snarky, but why do some of you guys have such a disdain for power, or the players who use them? It's hardly fair to take the tone I'm getting out of your post, and refer to them as "bitch" weapons.

To me, it shows that you're defining these weapons as below you, to use. Where does that set of judgments come from? When taken to the opposite end of the spectrum, is cornersniping with a FAL not equally as powerful, and efficient as a close range shotgun? Arguably, the FAL then has uses at multiple ranges, with an even lower chance of retaliation, due to being completely obscured by the wall, or obstacle. Is that more justifiable in the metric that labels the Shotty, and I assume the RPG and Hammer as "bitch" weapons, if only because the FAL has multiple spawn points?

I ask because I want to get some conversation on it. Most of you guys know I'm a pretty play-to-win guy, and really have no qualms about power, or things like using Situational. To me, it's all fair game, which admittedly differs a bit from some other mindsets. With that said, it was interesting to see some of your weapon stats pages, to see what your habits seemed to be.

We refer to them as bitch or pussy weapons because most of them require no skill at all. With shotguns all you do is run around and blindfire people, and with RPGs you just need to aim at the ground near them. The Hammer isn't much of a bitch weapon in my eyes, only because it takes two shots. But I use Sure Foot so I can usually get away. And the FAL is not much of one either. Mostly because the guns rate of fire is slower now so you can get away. But it is a camper weapon. But that's why some of us don't use bitch weapons, because we like to prove we have skill and the power weapons require little to no skill at best to use

Vrals597 wrote:

I try to avoid going after them but if I find them you better believe I will pick them up, well I guess you can say that I use a bitch weapon, the sniper rifle, but at least that takes aim

Sniper Rifle is not a bitch weapon. It takes careful aim and the moving speed for zoomed in is slow, so a moving target can get away unless you're really good. I use the Sniper all the time on Lost City and I get my kills by other people trying to snipe from across the map. They never get a shot on me because I move back and forth, messing up their aim. If they stand perfectly still and you move, then kill them and they bitch about it, its their fault for being a perfect target

Hey gents, I'm going to play me some lead and gold momentarily, and tell Rachet that I'm free, let's get it done before wednesday cuz I'll be in hawaii so cheers, and hope y'all are doing well.

-SD

The RPG and Shotgun weapons do have a certain amount of finesse to them, though. Dodging up to someone who has a bead on you with a shotgun takes some amount of ability to pull off, as does hitting someone from behind cover with a rocket across the map. It's true that some people will just point and click on the RPG and will just mash R1 when up close with a shotgun, but those people usually get one kill with it and then die. The skilled shotgun user will get nine kills out of the Bandoleer'd Moss, and the skilled RPG user will get three kills with the two rockets.

Just because they seem "unfair" doesn't mean that they take no skill to use effectively. I've gotten killed by lucky Down the Irons'd AK spreads across the map just as much as rocket blasts or shotgun blindfires, but that doesn't mean that the AK is an unfair weapon (or that DtI is an unfair booster). You're going to die in stupid ways, from any weapon.

So true, I try to jump every time I have the shotgun but I really only find myself using one of the grenade weapons when I'm using double negatives and there are people of my lvl who are using SA and no negative, just don't really understand it that much I guess but oh well, if you use sure foot and the person using the Hammer has bad aim/doesn't spam the thing you can pretty much get a kill on them with the AK, I've done it before, I also find it easy to get a trade off against a shotgun guy, just aim at them and you should drop them as they are killing you or even before it, I've done it myself. I guess what it really is that some people who use the weapons aren't the ones who can get off skillful kills with it, as Vash said, but I don't really bother experimenting with either weapon really because I don't really use them, except for maybe the odd plunder match on the village as a hero in the hero base camp but I don't really have much of an opinion on the stuff, the RPG does take some skill to use properly, I have seen people use the slightest bit of someone sticking out from behind cover to get a kill, must admit that it is annoying to have done to you but cool to see happen

Vash Watters wrote:

The RPG and Shotgun weapons do have a certain amount of finesse to them, though. Dodging up to someone who has a bead on you with a shotgun takes some amount of ability to pull off, as does hitting someone from behind cover with a rocket across the map. It's true that some people will just point and click on the RPG and will just mash R1 when up close with a shotgun, but those people usually get one kill with it and then die. The skilled shotgun user will get nine kills out of the Bandoleer'd Moss, and the skilled RPG user will get three kills with the two rockets.

Just because they seem "unfair" doesn't mean that they take no skill to use effectively. I've gotten killed by lucky Down the Irons'd AK spreads across the map just as much as rocket blasts or shotgun blindfires, but that doesn't mean that the AK is an unfair weapon (or that DtI is an unfair booster). You're going to die in stupid ways, from any weapon.

True, but most of the people I play just grab a shotty or RPG and spam it across the map to get kills. I have had only a few matches where people would not actually get me with the power weapons. And most of the people who do use them, are like level 50 or higher.

Welcome to the community Statis Feel free to intro yourself in our intro thread if you would like You can gets to it here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now to dive into this "Bitch" weapon mini topic

I think I used this term in one of my videos but I have to to admit that Vash and Endlo have some very valid points. That being said, I also kind of see the RPG/Hammer as a POSSIBLE weapon that falls under the "B" category. I'll explain "possible" below.

What transforms one of these weapons from a regular power weapon to a Pussy weapon IMO is when the player using the weapn otherwise would or could not kills otherwise a majority of the time. For example, these ones will constantly lean on those weapons to get kills and aside from that will not win many battles while the 92FS/Deagle/AK/M4/FAL. They may also combo this with Rocketman or Launchman boosters which cement's my call that they may be a pussy weapon whore. Its also HOW someone uses the weapon. If a guy has to blow 3 or 4 hammer shots out of 4 to kill just lil ol me by myself, then clearly they're scared that I'll survive and kill them or they aren't confident that they're going to get the kill to begin with.

Myself, I will generally only take and use a power weapon if I have taken it off an opponent I have killed/ one of my teammates have died beside me with it or if it happens to just be available. Many times I will announce to my team that its available so that they can take it instead of me (Bunch of people will confirm this). I think an exception for me is the Sanctuary where I will go for the hammer right off the start and in the fort I will make a pass at the RPG (videos confirm these strategies for me).

But I don't need them to get by. I don't find myself getting annoyed really at RPG users or Hammer users that much. If I notice that they are constantly using it or getting it on multiple spawns....then we have a power weapon whore right there. I'll get more annoyed with Shotty/Pistole users. And IMO these do not require much skill. Get close.Pull the trigger. Pwn. No aiming is needed. Even the RPG and Hammer require an ability to gauge at least A BIT distance, timing and leading of the target.

So, all of the power weapons have the potential to be bitch weapons, but once again in my opinion - it comes down to HOW OFTEN that player needs them to win or to get kills.

Raistlin wrote:

Welcome to the community Statis Feel free to intro yourself in our intro thread if you would like You can gets to it here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now to dive into this "Bitch" weapon mini topic

I think I used this term in one of my videos but I have to to admit that Vash and Endlo have some very valid points. That being said, I also kind of see the RPG/Hammer as a POSSIBLE weapon that falls under the "B" category. I'll explain "possible" below.

What transforms one of these weapons from a regular power weapon to a Pussy weapon IMO is when the player using the weapn otherwise would or could not kills otherwise a majority of the time. For example, these ones will constantly lean on those weapons to get kills and aside from that will not win many battles while the 92FS/Deagle/AK/M4/FAL. They may also combo this with Rocketman or Launchman boosters which cement's my call that they may be a pussy weapon whore. Its also HOW someone uses the weapon. If a guy has to blow 3 or 4 hammer shots out of 4 to kill just lil ol me by myself, then clearly they're scared that I'll survive and kill them or they aren't confident that they're going to get the kill to begin with.

Myself, I will generally only take and use a power weapon if I have taken it off an opponent I have killed/ one of my teammates have died beside me with it or if it happens to just be available. Many times I will announce to my team that its available so that they can take it instead of me (Bunch of people will confirm this). I think an exception for me is the Sanctuary where I will go for the hammer right off the start and in the fort I will make a pass at the RPG (videos confirm these strategies for me).

But I don't need them to get by. I don't find myself getting annoyed really at RPG users or Hammer users that much. If I notice that they are constantly using it or getting it on multiple spawns....then we have a power weapon whore right there. I'll get more annoyed with Shotty/Pistole users. And IMO these do not require much skill. Get close.Pull the trigger. Pwn. No aiming is needed. Even the RPG and Hammer require an ability to gauge at least A BIT distance, timing and leading of the target.

So, all of the power weapons have the potential to be bitch weapons, but once again in my opinion - it comes down to HOW OFTEN that player needs them to win or to get kills.

Very good explaination. Most of the time the shotty/Pistole thing happens. And I have names of people who use this strategy combined with lag to basically make them invincible. The first one I already named is (Mod Edit). He always lags and then kills you because he has a shotty. Another one is (Mod Edit). He usually does not have lag, but in the games I've played, he's had lag and kills people usuing the Pistole or shotty. And even I go for power weapons if they drop, but I don't use them unless I need to. I even go for the shotgun, just so nobody can get it, then I switch to my pistol so if I start getting raped from behind, I don't drop the shotty. Thus, no one has it until it respanws

I will admit that the shotguns and explosive weapons have the ability to generate kills without much effort, as compared to the high caliber weapons' (Sniper and the Desert Eagle) and the "basic" weapons (Micro, 92FS, AK-47, FAL, M4), which require some effort to use. I'd make a claim that the Micro with Sure Shot and the AK-47 with Down the Irons are almost as cheap, but it's a fairly moot point, because it doesn't matter to me.

I don't consider any weapon unfair because it's mutual, just like I don't consider any booster unfair. We all have access to these weapons and boosters; if they are "unfair," then they are mutually unfair. These weapons and boosters are capable of being used by anyone. However, there is some mentality circulating around that, because some weapons and boosters seem "unfair," that using them is a degrading, bitch way to play the game.

Which is foolish. Some weapons and boosters are better than others, which is the nature of the beast. Refusing to use them is fine, but if you do so, then that doesn't give you the ability to degrade and hate on people that do use them. Those people are just doing what they are naturally allowed to do, seeing as those weapons and boosters are on neutral ground to be used. They aren't breaking any rules, it's just that some people hold themselves to a more strict set of rules based on a biased perception of "fair" and "unfair."

Endloslung wrote:

Ouch, Reo. I guess I'm gonna have to step up and defend my honor here soon, eh? Dude gets you once with the FAL, and he's king of the red dot. Silly swedes.

Haha, can't I have this ONE moment of pride without you reminding me of my spot in the food-chain?

Tried a total of 10 games with the lab.

Not my cup of tea;

- SA with camping

- Sure Shot and camping in a corner

- Shield and camping in a corner

- Camping and camping in a corner

- Corner and corner in a corner



Easy money though, even if I couldn't care less about leveling

Static-Star1 wrote:

Raistlin wrote:

Welcome to the community Statis Feel free to intro yourself in our intro thread if you would like You can gets to it here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now to dive into this "Bitch" weapon mini topic

I think I used this term in one of my videos but I have to to admit that Vash and Endlo have some very valid points. That being said, I also kind of see the RPG/Hammer as a POSSIBLE weapon that falls under the "B" category. I'll explain "possible" below.

What transforms one of these weapons from a regular power weapon to a Pussy weapon IMO is when the player using the weapn otherwise would or could not kills otherwise a majority of the time. For example, these ones will constantly lean on those weapons to get kills and aside from that will not win many battles while the 92FS/Deagle/AK/M4/FAL. They may also combo this with Rocketman or Launchman boosters which cement's my call that they may be a pussy weapon whore. Its also HOW someone uses the weapon. If a guy has to blow 3 or 4 hammer shots out of 4 to kill just lil ol me by myself, then clearly they're scared that I'll survive and kill them or they aren't confident that they're going to get the kill to begin with.

Myself, I will generally only take and use a power weapon if I have taken it off an opponent I have killed/ one of my teammates have died beside me with it or if it happens to just be available. Many times I will announce to my team that its available so that they can take it instead of me (Bunch of people will confirm this). I think an exception for me is the Sanctuary where I will go for the hammer right off the start and in the fort I will make a pass at the RPG (videos confirm these strategies for me).

But I don't need them to get by. I don't find myself getting annoyed really at RPG users or Hammer users that much. If I notice that they are constantly using it or getting it on multiple spawns....then we have a power weapon whore right there. I'll get more annoyed with Shotty/Pistole users. And IMO these do not require much skill. Get close.Pull the trigger. Pwn. No aiming is needed. Even the RPG and Hammer require an ability to gauge at least A BIT distance, timing and leading of the target.

So, all of the power weapons have the potential to be bitch weapons, but once again in my opinion - it comes down to HOW OFTEN that player needs them to win or to get kills.

Very good explaination. Most of the time the shotty/Pistole thing happens. And I have names of people who use this strategy combined with lag to basically make them invincible. The first one I already named is (Mod Edit). He always lags and then kills you because he has a shotty. Another one is (Mod Edit). He usually does not have lag, but in the games I've played, he's had lag and kills people usuing the Pistole or shotty. And even I go for power weapons if they drop, but I don't use them unless I need to. I even go for the shotgun, just so nobody can get it, then I switch to my pistol so if I start getting raped from behind, I don't drop the shotty. Thus, no one has it until it respanws

I hear where you're coming from but in this point there's no need to call out specific PSN names or users please. Thanks

Vash Watters wrote:

I will admit that the shotguns and explosive weapons have the ability to generate kills without much effort, as compared to the high caliber weapons' (Sniper and the Desert Eagle) and the "basic" weapons (Micro, 92FS, AK-47, FAL, M4), which require some effort to use. I'd make a claim that the Micro with Sure Shot and the AK-47 with Down the Irons are almost as cheap, but it's a fairly moot point, because it doesn't matter to me.

I don't consider any weapon unfair because it's mutual, just like I don't consider any booster unfair. We all have access to these weapons and boosters; if they are "unfair," then they are mutually unfair. These weapons and boosters are capable of being used by anyone. However, there is some mentality circulating around that, because some weapons and boosters seem "unfair," that using them is a degrading, bitch way to play the game.

Which is foolish. Some weapons and boosters are better than others, which is the nature of the beast. Refusing to use them is fine, but if you do so, then that doesn't give you the ability to degrade and hate on people that do use them. Those people are just doing what they are naturally allowed to do, seeing as those weapons and boosters are on neutral ground to be used. They aren't breaking any rules, it's just that some people hold themselves to a more strict set of rules based on a biased perception of "fair" and "unfair."

AK + Down The Irons still does require more aiming and accuracy ( hard to believe I know) than an RPG or a shotty/pistole. Basically, take away a power weapon whore's power weapons and see what happens. His kills or ability to be effective drop rediculously and obviously quick. Take a player who is a standard AK user and remove down the irons. He may not be as accurate, and have more players get behind cover more often, but I would be willing to bet that they would still beat a power weapon whore without his power weapons easily.

What does this say? It means if you take away someone's crutch, how good are they without it? I'll put myself on the hotstove. As my signature states, I'm a Fleet Foot and DTI user for the majority of tenure. Once I got to 5253 I started using Invalid a bit and then went Hard core with half loaded/glass jaw. I effectively was forced to remove down the irons for a long period of time. in fact I still do not get much chance to use Down The Irons because I'm forced to use Evasion. Now, does that stop me from getting kills? No. Does that stop me from doing well in games?(for the most part hehe) No. So....with that being said, we can deduce that ESRaistlin, as a player, does not need Down The Irons to be effective or skilled at this game.

Now. Take away any other players main booster or weapon. What happens? And THAT will determine how good they are or are not. Take away the shotties, RPG, Pistole, Hammer from a power weapon whore. 9/10 times he or she will not be as effective as they were when they DID have access to them. Its the SAME analagy I use for Situaional Awareness Users. My main main weapon of choice is the AK. Take it away from me. Then what? I can still be decent with the FAL, still be harsh with the M4 or still be deadly with the Desert Eagle or 92FS. How one dimensional is a player? And that would be what I base my predjudice on depending on the situation

Reonista wrote:

Endloslung wrote:

Ouch, Reo. I guess I'm gonna have to step up and defend my honor here soon, eh? Dude gets you once with the FAL, and he's king of the red dot. Silly swedes.

Haha, can't I have this ONE moment of pride without you reminding me of my spot in the food-chain?

Tried a total of 10 games with the lab.

Not my cup of tea;

- SA with camping

- Sure Shot and camping in a corner

- Shield and camping in a corner

- Camping and camping in a corner

- Corner and corner in a corner



Easy money though, even if I couldn't care less about leveling

Yup, like I have said earlier I have actually used CGS this weekend because idc about it because I didn't want to deal with the half-loaded pistole or glass jaw and definitely not invalid, one shot kills with the pistole, and CGS barely impaired, might have to try it again on the regular mode though

Why is proficiency in the game based on being able to use the "basic" guns, though? It's obvious that some players can get kills purely based on power weapons/boosters, but you have to look at how much of a bearing that has on overall performance.

I know plenty of people who do nothing but spam power weapons and SA, and you know what? Those people typically go negative. Even at best. No matter how powerful some weapons or boosters are, there is no substitute for general ability. When you see someone go 17-0, using SA, then SA isn't the deciding factor there so much as the player who is using it. Does it really matter what that person used to get to that point? I've gotten that using the GAU, Justin's done it using the FAL. Raist, you've done it with just the AK.

At some point, it doesn't matter what a person uses. You're going to have terrible players rock power to do something in the game, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I said, it is meant to even the playing field. It lets inexperienced players have a chance. SA is a bit of an exception since you get it at a high level, but that doesn't mean that the people using it can use it effectively. I rarely see a person using SA to any effect; most people go negative even with it.

When I see a high level guy using Rocket Man, I don't get mad. It's a legitimate booster choice; in fact, he's taking away the ability to strafe, shrug off knockdown or have higher ammo for other weapons purely to have two more rockets. It's the same for SA. You're giving up the ability to spray better with the AK (or reload faster with anything) to be able to observe your surroundings better. The player's ability shows in how they do even with these power weapons.

And honestly, at some level, I don't even see the difference. Justin and I have been using SA lately to experiment, and our performance is relatively unchanged. We do the same with or without it, just like we do the same regardless of what weapons we fawn over in any particular map. I question just how relevant the "power weapon" or "unfair booster" argument is, because of how ingrained everything is with player ability.

Bad players will do bad, regardless of what they use. Is it better to go "Ha, you went 6-13 using SA and Launch Man, what a scrub," compared to just going "Wow, you went 6-13... period."

Awww, Reo, you know I love you. You're getting scarier with your FAL, and your AK game is better than mine. I'm still working on being well-rounded. Also, sorry I ruined the Lab for you.

Raist, you made some interesting points. I think the DtI versus pellet-weapon is a bad example. Of course the AK is going to require more aim, blindfire isn't an area where the weapon will excel. The skill in using those pellet-based weapons comes from needing to have the ability to control and manipulate your character into a position to get your kill. Often under fire. You can also set up an ambush, but that adds another set of variables into the equation, with both player's camera and map awareness, and either parties ability to use terrain to mask their positioning.

As for the rest of your post, we should all strive to be well rounded and competent players. Of course if you take a player out of their comfort zone, they will perform differently. How does that define a player or weapon as bitch? Using DtI as an example, you obviously recognize it's merit, and that it's beneficial to your performance, and I have to ask then, how utilizing every tool, be it weapon or booster, is not the same principle. They're powerful tools to be used, and they are available to all. If you make the decision to exclude yourself from using those tools, you're more than welcome to do so, but it also excludes you from making that decision into a moral high-ground to judge or condemn a player from. They're not beneath you, they're not bitches, they have simply made a decision to utilize their available resources, and maximise their performance.

I will never understand the hatred of Situational here, either. I still use the other information available to me, I have a camera, eyes, and can still process audio cues. It's simply another way to generate information, and react accordingly. It's a tool available for use, and given how powerful information is, I'm fine with giving up the other possible slot 1 enhancements, to access that tool.

i'm never playing the lab again

lol I actually the Lab with a rl buddy who just started U2 that day, I was the party leader and lets just say he got owned, went 4-12 was it? either way he went negative lol