I'll post more about how Evasion is bad, and on the same level as Break Up and Monkey Man in a little bit.

I'm closing down Endloslung. I'm going to delete that PSN here in a day or two, just a heads up to everybody. I'll get new invites sent out, and I'll be sure to remind you guys it's me, in the messages. New tag is Amesoeur, just like the new screen name.

WHAT?!?! Why?!?! don't do that. Level 61 dude, why?

Hmm, interesting decision Justin. Why are you deleting Endloslung?

I know the reason I liked Evasion was because it was a ninja way to sneak up on a Stich user who was really abusing the booster. A player like you, Justin, who uses all the tools to his disposal like camera, awareness of your surroundings, etc... even if you are wearing Stich, then there isn't much use to Evasion, since you're already keeping a good eye on everything around you.

A guy who hides in the RPG room spamming stich just waiting for somebody to run by... THAT is the kind of guy I use Evasion on. They just expect to be able to see every person in the vicinity, and when a guy (namely me) runs in there, it startles them since they don't expect it, and it will atleast end up in a trade kill. I have a pretty neutral stance on the booster, however. I'm not using it anymore, I've come to accept Stich users, and I'll just stay far away from their camping spots

Dude you should go for the highest K/D ratio possible, only for like your first two games, then don't worry about it. I'm just curious what you can get it to. I know K/D isn't everything but it is something

s1lv3r4554551n wrote:

Dude you should go for the highest K/D ratio possible, only for like your first two games, then don't worry about it. I'm just curious what you can get it to. I know K/D isn't everything but it is something

Eh? Are you talking about with Stich or just overall? I've been able to pull off some crazy K/Ds, especially during the 1.04 days.

I'm not using Evasion as much as I dit anymore. I'll only bring it out if I'm having a rematch against guys who are good with SA.

The thing is, when I was around 45-50 alot of people around those levels depend on SA and will abuse it as much as posible.
Add on the fact that I had very little knowledge of where SA users normally camp and how to counter.
Evasion just made those levels more playable back then.

Now, I would recommend people using RH or Juggler.


Endlo, why are you going to restart with a new account? PM?


I've been playing a lot less these last couple of days but decided to get in some games today.
Man did I have a hard time the first couple of games (5-11, 7-9)
I don't know why, but my aiming was awful and I wasn't thinking things through.

Later on though I got scores like 26-8, but still its funny how one can "lose the touch" after only so short time away.

Have played some more now and I honestly think that this break has served me good.
I no longer focus on achieving something, like 10 kills minimum every game, reaching that particular level before a deadline, etc, etc.

Now I can just relax and have fun.
I still use the negs, because they DO make you a better player, but they are not there because I need/want the money.

Will be fun to see my game history when the stats update, I've had some major games (for me) this morning, last game at Plaza ending 14-2-4.

One bad (?) thing I've noticed with the FAL is that in between that slight firing pause, people steal that kill.
I averaged like 6-7 assists almost every game.
I don't care though, just proves that I'm a teamplayer

I would assume he's talking to me, because I'm not sitting a whopping 0/0 K/D. It's so strange seeing the store full of things to be purchased, or missing Marco and Genghis, or Skelzor and Donut.

It's also only 2k to level 2. Cannot wait for 16, and that Fleet Foot.


I posted my reasoning in the blog. It's as simple as retiring something that no longer fits. It has nothing to do with any of the drama associated with my tag, I love the hatemail. It didn't have anything to do with stats, or my level, it was simply to start over, and give Endloslung the rest that it deserves.


You guys can play with a green again! I know we all go....awww, lookit, a green! So, there's always that. Act fast though, or I'll be a blue! I'll also get a second X birthday, so there's always that.

Amesoeur wrote:

I'll post more about how Evasion is bad, and on the same level as Break Up and Monkey Man in a little bit.

I'm closing down Endloslung. I'm going to delete that PSN here in a day or two, just a heads up to everybody. I'll get new invites sent out, and I'll be sure to remind you guys it's me, in the messages. New tag is Amesoeur, just like the new screen name.

I can understand why you may want to start over. But I recommend not deleting it all together. Just keep it there in the background. So much awesome history there man. You will accomplish your main point simply by not using the old PSN name. I say stop using it, but leave it simply as retired. No need to execute it

Well, I'll be sure to add you next time I'm on...

This should be good.

It should be interesting, I'll give it that.

As far as Evasion goes, I honestly put it on par with Break Up, Scavenger, and Monkey Man. All completely useless boosters. I've gone over how I view it, from my evaluation. You're expending your resources, to put us, in a 1v1 sense, back on equal footing. You gave up any number of other solid enhancements, like the not insignificant Rapid Hands, or the ever-powerful Down the Irons, to put us on an equal footing. You also put yourself at a disadvantage against other players, who are not using Situational, but who are likely using Rapid Hands, or Sure Shot, or Down the Irons, because you no longer have that booster to offset the difference.

From my perspective, as a Situational advocate, I still win. You had to spend your resources, to put us back to par, and then my booster is still likely going to serve it's purpose, against other members of your team. Therefore, you nullified your top booster, in an attempt to nullify mine, yet mine is still likely to work.

It's hard for me to evaluate players who use it poorly. You can justify just about anything, in the context of players who cannot use their other tools. You're likely to beat them anyway in those encounters, based on the virtue of your superior playskill. You're far more adaptable, and versatile, and they are incredibly predictable.
- Countless times, on the Village, my first kill is the opposing shotgun. Because a lot of them will go through the center house, to ambush people from the side, where the GAU spawns, or to get lucky and flank someone who's in the side of that house closer to their original spawn. It's a very defined and predictable opening. You have no idea how many times players want to blame their death on my Situational, when I've yet to even press up. I just know that you're likely to do that, so I keep an eye on that spot. It has nothing to do with my booster, and everything to do with our playskills, and our ability to recognize patterns and trends, and react accordingly. They often has their Situational as well, but even with theirs active, I knew where they were, before they did, and long before they knew I was there.

Silver, you also brought up the fact that you don't feel like you need Down the Irons. You probably don't. Most people don't, but Down the Irons is more than a little unfair sometimes, and it's the enabler. It lets you bypass cover, and shoot through corners, far more effectively than you should be able to. Lag plays a part, I'm sure, but it's very much in the realm of what both Down the Irons and Sure Shot do.

Situational may let me see you though a wall, but it doesn't let me shoot through it. Nobody should need it, burst fire is going to be relatively accurate anyway, unless you're me, and then it'll never matter, because the AK sucks, but Down the Irons simply bends the rules of the game, much like any of the top used boosters. It generates kills that you simply did not deserve, by allowing you to sync up the last shot or two, regardless of their positioning.

I'm trying out Situational Awareness/Half-Loaded because quite frankly, I was about ready to quit this game for good with all the crappy double negative games I've been having.

I'm really loving having Situational on, but I just know it's going to come back and bite me in the butt when I want to switch to Glass Jaw - I hope I won't become completely dependent on Situational.

Amesoeur wrote:

It should be interesting, I'll give it that.

As far as Evasion goes, I honestly put it on par with Break Up, Scavenger, and Monkey Man. All completely useless boosters. I've gone over how I view it, from my evaluation. You're expending your resources, to put us, in a 1v1 sense, back on equal footing. You gave up any number of other solid enhancements, like the not insignificant Rapid Hands, or the ever-powerful Down the Irons, to put us on an equal footing. You also put yourself at a disadvantage against other players, who are not using Situational, but who are likely using Rapid Hands, or Sure Shot, or Down the Irons, because you no longer have that booster to offset the difference.

From my perspective, as a Situational advocate, I still win. You had to spend your resources, to put us back to par, and then my booster is still likely going to serve it's purpose, against other members of your team. Therefore, you nullified your top booster, in an attempt to nullify mine, yet mine is still likely to work.

This.

The main reason why I rarely use evasion anymore.

But to be completely honest, I don't really see a booster in the 1st slot that is an actual MUST HAVE.
Since I normally will go for FAL + 92FS, I don't really need DTI or Rapid Hands either.
The only booster I truly feel I miss is Fleet Foot, so whenever I get to 57, I think I'll have my setup done, for good.

I'll completely admit that I mis-evaluated Fleet Foot.

Obviously it was my stand-in booster until 54, there's really not a lot of competition for the second slot, but after not having it for a while, I really do start to miss it. Especially with my FAL, when I get into scraps with AK guys. Being able to out-dance them, and just land your two bursts means you win, and often survive, whereas I trade entirely too much at that distance, without it.

It's not so relevant long-range, because I'm often cornershooting, but it's definitely a booster that I've come to love. Bandoleer is really the only non-negative that I feel competes with it. I liked Scoped In, but kind of like Fleet, I felt that in the situations where I needed it, it wasn't much use, because I'm cornershooting. It's got applications on the Fort though, so it's likely a pretty solid booster there, because you'll end up in a lot of cross-map FAL battles, and that wobble is a pain.

Bandoleer on the hand, is a really underrated booster, because those extra shells, for your Moss or SAS, or the extra Sniper rounds really do add up. Turtle, I know you weren't a big fan of it, originally, but has your opinion come around at all? You mentioned feeling like it was difficult to have a lifespan long enough to make those extra bullets matter, but now that you're not running Invalid, has that changed at all, for you?

As far as relying on Situational, just make sure that you're not neglecting your other methods of awareness. The transitional phases will be strange at first, after you become used to having it, but really, we use it as a double-check, or a quick tab on where people are, that way I know a little bit better, where my attentions need to be focused. Also, one thing I've come to appreciate, is that you shouldn't feel pressured to use the next negative.

If you want your Fleet Foot or your Bandoleer back, then by all means, go nuts. But don't feel like you need to use Jaw, over Half, just because you're at that new threshold. I used Jaw from 57-60, and I kind of hated it. In retrospect, and now that I've got that extra bit of experience, having all the negatives, I probably would've just stayed with Situational/Half. It's a pretty forgiving set-up, and the money it's horrible.

New cap makes it annoying, yeah, but it'll come in time anyway. I hardly capped with Jaw, and it cost me a lot of deaths. You have to keep the free kills in mind, but like I've said before here, I really hated the fact that Jaw gave players an out, when they really wouldn't have one otherwise. It's just a random desperation act, that trumps you, every once in a while, and it sucks. This problem is much rarer with Half-Loaded.

Amesoeur wrote:

I'll completely admit that I mis-evaluated Fleet Foot.
Bandoleer on the hand, is a really underrated booster, because those extra shells, for your Moss or SAS, or the extra Sniper rounds really do add up. Turtle, I know you weren't a big fan of it, originally, but has your opinion come around at all? You mentioned feeling like it was difficult to have a lifespan long enough to make those extra bullets matter, but now that you're not running Invalid, has that changed at all, for you?

It was that way for me long before I was running Invalid... I stopped using Bandoleer in my... 30s, I think. Part of the problem was that I didn't know how to use those guns effectively then, but the other problem, the one that persists even now, is that after you fire a power weapon once, you become a target. It's the same thing as giving your position away by firing any weapon, but with power weapons, people make it a priority to take you out.

Of course, I often just don't go for power weapons anymore, which is a habit brought about by Invalid. Power weapon spawns being what they are (that is, seeing a good amount of traffic), I found that as flimsy as I was, it was better to let someone else go for the weapon and just cover them from a corner. Naturally, the power weapons with the least amount of traffic (if you can even call them power weapons) are the shotguns, which are almost always a bad choice anyway when combined with Invalid.

The thing about Bandoleer is that it's a huge boon to two low-traffic power-weapons, the Shotguns and the Dragon, as well as the 1.5 tier M4. That extra ammo is a lot of killing power.

The high-traffic power weapons have their own boosters, obviously, and they're not the intention of Bandoleer. You get quite a bit of extra mileage out of the Dragon and the Moss. That's 3-ish extra kills, and that's a lot of potential to be giving up.

Yeah, by having a power-weapon, you can draw attention to yourself. That's not necessarily a bad thing. You've got to be able to use your leverage in that situation, though. They're actively coming to you, and thus putting themselves in positions of risk for you to exploit. You need to play intelligently, and make the most of your resources, and Bandoleer simply gives you more of those resources.

If I where to start using the FAL I would almost always pick Scoped In, it just help so much with those cross-fort battles it's not even funny.

It really doesn't. You should be cornershooting a majority of the time, and thus, Scoped In loses a lot of it's value. In closer encounters, when Scoped would reduce the cross-hair wobble, Fleet outshines it, because you need to be as mobile as you can, to avoid trading, and outright losing, occasionally.

3 games in, on Amesoeur, up to level 6. I'm enjoying it again, the game is fun, and although it's strange having to unlock everything again, it's not a bad thing. Leveled up 3 times on my first game, rocked the Fort.

I guess that post was from my point of veiw before you taught me corner-shooting, I understand your point.

Re-reading it, it sounded a bit arrogant. I apologize if it came off that way. I should have prefaced it with an in my opinion.

But, the reality is, a lot of the time, the practicality of Scoped In is diminished, because of cornershooting. It shines in long-distance FAL on FAL fights, and really, cornershooting will win you most of those, by itself. Fleet Foot is far more valuable, for both AK and FAL users, because you need to mitigate as much damage as you can, and it's the most practical way to accomplish that, in mid-range to close-range firefights. Long-range, a basic dance will do you alright, and really, you should be limiting your exposure anyway, via cornershooting.

It's very interesting playing with a lower-level player-pool again. It's cool to see them making the same mistakes that I did, as I was learning, and it's nice to see the comparison, of how far I've come. It's a little bully-ish, but them's the breaks, and it's really renewed my love of the game, for the time being. Having to re-earn everything, having an actual sense of progression again, unlocking things, and leveling up, it's enjoyable.

Going to try to get some people to Co-Op with me, it's a huge source of money, and right now, without boosters, I'm doing okay, best so far was a 10-1, but I can really start to play again, in DM/whatever, when I hit 16, and unlock Down the Irons and Fleet Foot. Already at level 7, after three games, so it shouldn't be too long before I feel adequately equipped. So glad Bandoleer is the first bottom-slot booster you unlock, and that Fleet isn't much higher up.

Amesoeur wrote:

As far as Evasion goes, I honestly put it on par with Break Up, Scavenger, and Monkey Man. All completely useless boosters. I've gone over how I view it, from my evaluation. You're expending your resources, to put us, in a 1v1 sense, back on equal footing. You gave up any number of other solid enhancements, like the not insignificant Rapid Hands, or the ever-powerful Down the Irons, to put us on an equal footing. You also put yourself at a disadvantage against other players, who are not using Situational, but who are likely using Rapid Hands, or Sure Shot, or Down the Irons, because you no longer have that booster to offset the difference.

From my perspective, as a Situational advocate, I still win. You had to spend your resources, to put us back to par, and then my booster is still likely going to serve it's purpose, against other members of your team. Therefore, you nullified your top booster, in an attempt to nullify mine, yet mine is still likely to work.

Have to play devils advocate on this. I completely disagree. By using evasion I waste no resources. In a sense where I was able to maintain a 2.5 K/D while getting to level 60 and using negatives, I didn't have to rely on DTI to get kills. As such I could have evasion, glassjaw, invalid and so on up there. So if I put on evasion, I can still run off rampants and kills with no issue. I can still drop people across a map with my AK/M4 (start of the village from the hero's side - almost first kill every time with an M4). So using eveasion, I don't miss out on anything considering the only booster I used was DTI or evasion to begin with (when not rocking negs). As such, I'm still on equal level with everyone in the match. However, for SA users, they will be at a disadvantage to me.

These players lean on this to get their kills and stay afloat. They lack the ability, foresight or intelligence to read the game and as such always find that they are getting shot from teh back/sides and lose a lot of their 1 vs 1s. As such, they need to see where people are beforehand to come up with a strategy or wait for the right moment to strike. Take this benefit away from them, and they go back to flailing around wondering why they can't win 1 vs 1s or are always getting back attacked. In a game where the first shot is very important and power weapons are 1 shot kills, this is a huge crutch. You, good sir, are an exception. You don't need to use it to get kills, but you love exploring and finding out the best way to use things and how to find benefits in things. To be honest, had I not known you as personally as I do, I would be talking to you just like I do with any other high level situational user. So I'm glad I know you

Raistlin wrote:

Amesoeur wrote:

As far as Evasion goes, I honestly put it on par with Break Up, Scavenger, and Monkey Man. All completely useless boosters. I've gone over how I view it, from my evaluation. You're expending your resources, to put us, in a 1v1 sense, back on equal footing. You gave up any number of other solid enhancements, like the not insignificant Rapid Hands, or the ever-powerful Down the Irons, to put us on an equal footing. You also put yourself at a disadvantage against other players, who are not using Situational, but who are likely using Rapid Hands, or Sure Shot, or Down the Irons, because you no longer have that booster to offset the difference.

From my perspective, as a Situational advocate, I still win. You had to spend your resources, to put us back to par, and then my booster is still likely going to serve it's purpose, against other members of your team. Therefore, you nullified your top booster, in an attempt to nullify mine, yet mine is still likely to work.

Have to play devils advocate on this. I completely disagree. By using evasion I waste no resources. In a sense where I was able to maintain a 2.5 K/D while getting to level 60 and using negatives, I didn't have to rely on DTI to get kills. As such I could have evasion, glassjaw, invalid and so on up there. So if I put on evasion, I can still run off rampants and kills with no issue. I can still drop people across a map with my AK/M4 (start of the village from the hero's side - almost first kill every time with an M4). So using eveasion, I don't miss out on anything considering the only booster I used was DTI or evasion to begin with (when not rocking negs). As such, I'm still on equal level with everyone in the match. However, for SA users, they will be at a disadvantage to me.

These players lean on this to get their kills and stay afloat. They lack the ability, foresight or intelligence to read the game and as such always find that they are getting shot from teh back/sides and lose a lot of their 1 vs 1s. As such, they need to see where people are beforehand to come up with a strategy or wait for the right moment to strike. Take this benefit away from them, and they go back to flailing around wondering why they can't win 1 vs 1s or are always getting back attacked. In a game where the first shot is very important and power weapons are 1 shot kills, this is a huge crutch. You, good sir, are an exception. You don't need to use it to get kills, but you love exploring and finding out the best way to use things and how to find benefits in things. To be honest, had I not known you as personally as I do, I would be talking to you just like I do with any other high level situational user. So I'm glad I know you

Finally! Someone who has the same opinion I do! I have played with so many SA users that abuse it to get kills its not even funny. It pretty much takes away any way to kill them as they see where you are everytime. For example, I played with some dude in a plunder match on the Sanctuary, he kills me and I respawn. I jump into the underground, turn the corner and get shot and kileld by the same dude. All because he was using SA. And then he pumps over me like he had skill. I challenged him to a 1 on 1 without SA and he accepted. I won 25-7. He backed out but not before sending some hatemail about how he said I was "glitching." This is just something to back up Raist's statement abotu how they depend on it to get kills

Discussion! I love you guys!

You, dear The ESRaistlin, are likely as much of an exception as myself. I never said that DtI was necessary. It is however, a tangible benefit. I don't need Rapid Hands, or Down the Irons, or Scoped In to kill with my AKs, or my FALs, either. Down the Irons allows you to take kills from behind obstacles, that are never going to be obtainable otherwise. There is a tangible, and powerful benefit to using the booster. It's widely considered to be one of the best boosters, and it's certainly one of the most used, and beloved, for a reason. It's power, is honestly right up there, with Situational.

It simply lets you ignore obstacles between your reticle, and your target. I've used this a million times, but Situational may allow me to see through walls, but it certainly doesn't allow me to shoot through them. DtI fudges the math a little bit. It's not necessary, no. But it certainly doesn't hinder your performance, and really only stands to add to it. That's why I asses it as giving up a benefit. You're losing the ability to gain those kills, or to simply come out on top, of those confrontations, through sheer force.

I think a large part of our disagreement, is that we're assessing Situational based on two separate control groups. I'm using myself, and Vash as subjects, for my observations, and that's probably flawed. Evasion has yet to make a difference, regardless of the fact that I'm using Situational. I do understand your point, though, about the players who do not use any other resources, to aid their awareness. You have to pay attention to everything, you need all of the information that you can get. It's what allows you to make the best decisions, on the fly, and to leverage your advantages as hard as you can. Sound, sight, the ticker, your teammates, they all add up to a much higher level of understanding any given situation, and how to bend it to your favor, Situational just adds another layer, to that. That's how I use it.

I've never relied on it as a crutch, and I waited until I was level 60 to really even use it. I made sure that I avoided that trap, because it limits me as a player, and I'm all about forcing every aspect of myself to improve, as much as I can. I'm very performance-motivated, and you know that. You've been there through the phases where I've pushed myself out of my comfort zone, or learned new comfort zones, in an attempt to be more well rounded. It's an argument, that I don't think is every really going to go anywhere, to be honest.

We, much like the Uncharted community, as a whole, have very strong opinions on Situational, and they are very different. I do understand your arguments, and I'll fully admit that they're good ones. The thing is, I don't want to base my evaluations, or my performance, or my selections of strategy/weaponry/booster selection, on players who cannot function within a regular environment.



I also don't know that I agree with Situational giving those players that large an advantage. Maybe it's a partially a factor of my playstyle, where I don't really encounter Situational users, in situations where it benefited them. If I didn't know they were there, then I failed, and that was my fault. Situational had nothing to do with it. It's certainly something worth considering, given that our styles are very opposite, and yours takes you into those situations, and environments, where you're more likely to be "ambushed" by a user.



Static, you're leaving out information. How were you handling yourself in those situations? You knew there was a Situational user, and you needed to moderate your actions accordingly. Did you have your weapon trained, when going into the underground cavern? How was your camera oriented? What did you do, to minimize your risk, of being ambushed?

Pumping is in bad taste, regardless of the situation. You should never flaunt a kill, it's tacky, and puts you in unnecessary danger, just to prove a point, or be a braggart. He also tried to trashtalk and make excuses, but that has more to do with that specific player, than the booster in question.

You felt the need to redeem your performance, and prove your worth, and his worthlessness, as a player, by challenging him to a match where you determined a handicap. Yeah, he might have been a player who absolutely needed it to stay afloat, but those people exist within every booster that's debated. Situational isn't on some pedestal of unfairness, you just need to learn to play around it, and be aware of it's existence in the games that you're in. There are people who are just as incappable without their DtI, or their Fleet Foot. These are enhancements that are fair to use, they're provided for you to do exactly that.

Just because someone has DtI, and uses it to their best advantage, doesn't make it unfair, it just makes it a reality of the game. Situational is the same way.

Have to agree with Amesouer here, they may be ready for you but it's your fault for not being ready around every corner, doing this you won't need SA because SA just tells you when exactly to be ready. You should be ready at all times or be ready to die.

That's not quite my point, but hey. That kinda works.

I'm saying that you need to be aware of Situational. It's easy to blame kills on it. If you were careless, it becomes a common variable in your deaths. You were reckless, and that's what caused your death, not the booster. It happens a lot. Situational is a double-sided crutch. Everybody uses it as an excuse, without taking the time to scrutinize their own performances, and what they could have done differently. It's much easier to pawn the blame off on Sitch, when an honest and introspective evaluation is needed.

It does help though, to obviously be prepared when entering an unfamiliar, or uncontrolled area. I'll agree on that, absolutely. Everyone does, it's pretty necessary to ensure you survive.


I'm also going to disagree that it's a replacement to Situational. Situational should enhance your ability to gather that information, and supplement the information you already have. It's not a singular be-all end-all source of information. It should be used to confirm numbers, and locations, and to scout and read the intentions of players around you.